gfunk808

It is interesting both to read Atom and TD's responses side-by-side. Since they are both comparing different things, what struck me the most is "total time" as opposed to "relative time" that I initially started questioning with this thread.

Yes, I'm sure everyone will agree that dual clutch is going to be a faster shift than Tip Tronic -- but is the total time to complete a shift with Tip Tronic really that bad? In other words, if it takes a qtr second with DSG and 100% more with Tip Tronic, we are still only talking about .5 seconds (these numbers are for example only)....

Aside from having TD video record is experience, does anyone have any real numbers around shift time? has Audi or Volkswagen published this anywhere?

td80

I was curious of that as well. I know the TIP isn't the best performing automatic trans out there (especially when compared to the DSG/S Tronic and SMG from that 'other maker' ) but I was pleasantly surprised to see how fast my 2010 TIP responds compared to what I expected. My last TIP equipped Audi was a 2004 A6 and it was so terribly slow that I never even bothered to use the manual mode. I knew the S5 would be at least better, but I honestly didn't expect the new one to be as good as it is.

My 6 series had what I thought was a great automatic (and it was not an SMG) which shifted pretty quickly and very stiffly on demand, but suffered a little in terms of shift lag from when I hit the button to when the trans responded. The S5 has much less lag which I have been pretty happy with so far.

The other thing to note here is I'm pointing out purely my own impressions of the car as well, which may completely contradict what somebody else might perceive as fast or slow. This also isn't to say I'm not jealous as hell of the S Tronic as well... grass is always greener.

atombomb33

I think it really matters which type of transmission you're coming from. If you're coming from a torque converter automatic, then the Tiptronic will feel great and someone would be happy with it. If you're coming from a DSG (or other dual-clutch) than you would notice the lack of performance in the Tiptronic and you would want the Stronic since it would match the DSG in performance and driving characteristics.

To your point about timing of shifts, if you look purely at numbers the time difference doesn't seem that great. I don't have numbers, but I would imagine they are very close. But, it's less about the time (although the Stronic is certainly faster) and more about feel. You can feel the Stronic shifting faster with better engagement during shifts. You have more control over the Stronic transmission. The Stronic's rev-matched downshifts are perfect every time. It's the feeling when driving the further separates the Stronic from the Tiptronic.

IAS5

Are the published figures really going to help you decide? You are correct that, relatively speaking, ".25 vs. .5" (example) is not going to dramtically alter the general performance of the car, but if you do drive above 7/10 (aka "spiritedly"), you will appreciate the DSG MUCH more than the tip. If it is not an issue, then the Tip will probably serve you just fine.

In the end, I think you really have to drive them both yourself, because only you know you own driving style. You just might find that the time difference between the two FEELS much greater, thus the potential desire for the DSG.

Again, I have DSG, and would never go back to the TIP, if the choice presented itself again--- but i love to drive "spiritedly" ---alot.

td80

This is one thing I do miss from my BMW -- the rev matching in that car made driving in sport mode without manual shifting still a joy. I rarely used the manual mode in the BMW because it was very good about keeping me where I thought the RPMs should be.

I should probably add to this discussion that I no longer allow the S5 to make any gear shifting decisions for me. When I was saying the TIP was decent above, I was speaking PURELY of the time it takes to shift once initiated, and not so much the rest of the system. I use the paddles 95% of the time now as in full auto mode (even in sport mode) it refuses to downshift when I think it should, and upshifts far too soon. My BMW was much more spirited-driver oriented as it always seemed to know what my next moves were going to be and accommodated nicely.

That being said, the raw shifting performance of the TIP has been satisfying, but the overall smarts and orientation towards performance in sport mode could use serious improvement. If the S Tronic also improves on those drivability factors, then I would definitely agree that it must be far superior feeling.

cbktt

DSG is BY FAR BETTER than TIP.. HANDS DOWN. NO COMPARISON.

Tiptronic is like a regular sluggish autobox. It is just configured to let you change gears when ou desire.

DSG is a competely different story. DSG is a manual gearbox which is automated, with lightning fast shifts, and rev matched down shifts, the car feels just like manual.

Agree with the rest, DSG to TIP is a HUGE downgrade. The main deciding factor in getting my 09 TT 2.0T was the DSG. If I were getting a A5 2.0T it would have to be the manual since the DSG is not available for the 2.0T A5.

Ruairi

DSG or other auto dual-clutch systems are in favor now. It should be noted, however, that the initial single clutch designs (e.g., BMW SMG) were loved at first, but now almost hated. I state this because I've read some research articles on hydraulic transmissions and my bet is they will soon out perform the clutch based automatics. The latest ZF 8 speed transmission shifts in .2 seconds and can do an 8th gear rev-matched downshift into 2nd gear. The hydraulic automatics can shift much smoother during casual driving, can skip gears, are more efficient (gas mileage is driving the research), are practically maintenance free, and are approaching the shift speeds of clutch based systems. I've also read that some people believe they can provide quicker launches because of their software control.

I know this doesn't help anyone making a decision now, but I thought it was interesting. None of this technology stuff should effect a decision. Your decision should be based on how you you like the way it drives. I'm a great example, I like manuals which fall behind in many ways when looking at specs and technology.

gfunk808

Latest update:

After much soul-searching, and researching, I decided to take the plunge. Now driving an A5 S-line with paddle shifters!

Overall I am happy with the responsiveness, probably the most notable change is the lack of rev-matching on the downshifts. As with a pure manual transmission, one could compensate with the throttle on their own – but I don't really seem to have the problem much because I usually downshift in situations where I am trying to accelerate anyway.

Thanks for your input, it was helpful in making the decision. Questions welcome…

GuzmanA5

tiptronic, dsg, etc are al automatics some better than the other but same concept.

td80

Definitely not true.

The standard automatic transmission of old (including the tiptronic) are very different from the DSG or S-Tronic transmissions. DSG and S-tronic are true auto-manual transmissions with dual clutches and no torque converter.

I'll say the tiptronic has come a long ways since its creation and I'm still impressed with mine daily compared to my previous Audi's, however, the dual clutch DSG/S-tronic transmissions are definitely the future for performance oriented vehicles.