cruz02148

Hey everyone,

I've been eyeing a RS5 for a couple years now and am starting to really feel the itch to go ahead and get one. I recently test drove a used 2019 RS5 SB. I really enjoyed most things about the car, but there's just one big thing I can't seem to understand. The throttle response doesn't seem as good as in my S4.

I obviously knew to put the car in Dynamic mode so I get the most aggression. Of course the car is fast, but I didn't really feel getting pushed back in my seat unless I really pushed down on the throttle. Compared to my S4 in Dynamic, it felt like the throttle response was not as good until I really pushed it and that's when I really felt the torque hit.

Has anyone else noticed this or have any comments coming from the B8 gen of the "S" cars? I almost want to blame it on the fact that the car is used (6k odometer) and maybe something happened to it (Carfax was clean though)

Dan99

The difference you feel is probably the transmission. I previously had 2 S4s, B8 and B8.5, and now have a B9 RS5. The DSG transmission in the B8/B8.5 is more immediate than the ZF in the B9 models. The DSG always provides a manual connection to the drive train so you don't have to wait for the torque converter to respond. The DSG also does not downshift as readily, so acceleration feels more immediate. The ZF is more likely to downshift multiple gears before it accelerates, which introduces a perceptible delay. The RS5 has a lot more torque than the B8/8.5. While the ZF is an automatic transmission, it does provide manual connections in some situations. Put the RS5 in manual mode, select a gear that puts you above 2000 rpm, and punch the gas. The torque is there and it's immediate.

Personally, I prefer the DSG but it is only rated to 400 ft lbs of torque which is not enough for the B9 RS5. While the ZF transmission seems really popular, I can only assume this is with people who are more used to driving automatic transmissions than manual transmissions. In my world, the ZF transmission is still a slush box. It is a better slush box, but till a slush box.

m444

The turbo on an engine takes time to spool, the supercharger has instant response.

I had a 2011 B8 S4 stage 2 & a 2016 c7.5 S6 stage 1, both with the DSG.

The ZF transmission is superior to the DSG. It has no issues with acceleration out of a right turn like the DSG has. The DSG would often just pause for awhile, in the wrong gear. The DSG would fail to engage sometimes in an intersection, with a big delay. Also at low speeds in a parking lot. It was often jerky.

The throttle response depends on the low end torque of the engine & programming of the ECU/TCU. The B8 supercharger has a lot of instant low end torque.

Years ago, I had a Mustang with a supercharger, intercooler, AODE with high stall torque converter. Throttle response was instant. It did have a reprogrammed shift kit valve body. The factory transmission programming is made soft for passenger comfort & to prevent breaking drive train components.

On the Audi, Dynamic mode does not do much for throttle response, unless one pulls back the shifter into Sport mode.

Dan99

I agree with Sport over Dynamic. I would also agree that the ZF is superior to the DSG in the B8, but disagree about the DSG in the B8.5.

I had a 2011 B8 S4 and the DSG transmission was the worst part of the car (next to the red LCD screen). However, after one test drive in a 2013 B8.5 S4 it was immediately obvious that the programming on the transmission changed. It was a different animal altogether. It did not downshift and lurch while coming to a stop; it shifted better when accelerating; it held the correct gear through curves, and did not exhibit the behavior you described. That 2013 DSG transmission became even better after I installed APR TCU.

My ZF transmission acts like your B8 DSG. It unexpectedly but regularly bangs a 1-2 shift while making a low speed right turn from a dead stop. It sometimes clunks during shifts and it wants to downshift all of the time, even for modest acceleration. In normal traffic I could step on the gas in my B8.5 and the car would accelerate just as I wanted. Now, with the ZF, it downshifts multiple gears to get the same level of acceleration and then it becomes an event. Sometimes you want an event, and sometimes you just want some modest acceleration.

But, all of this is personal preference. I have driven manual transmissions most of my life and prefer the immediacy and control they provide. I can shift the DSG like a manual just by using the accelerator like I would in a car with a stick. On the other hand, the ZF is just an automatic transmission and it drives that way. It leaves me wanting. However, there is little choice these days. Many manufacturers have gone to the ZF because it can handle more torque and it has mileage/efficiency features that help meet regulatory requirements. But, it's still a slush box to me. Ever wonder why Porsche kept its PDK instead of moving to the ZF? I would take the DSG in the B8.5 over the ZF in the RS5 in a heartbeat if I had a choice. If you like automatics, you'll like the ZF. If you prefer a stick, and drive the DSG like it's a stick (shifting with the accelerator, not the paddles), you will prefer the DSG.

m444

The DSG in my 2016 C7.5 S6 had the same issues my 2011 B8 S4 had and the 2016 S6 DSG was the worst part of that car (besides the impending Turbo & oil separator doom)..

My 2019 RS5 ZF transmission operates silky smooth & quick. Sounds like your ZF transmission has problems, possibly a software issue or transmission fluid issue.

I enjoyed driving manual transmission cars for 22 years, but many years ago I had to move to an automatic for medical reasons. The automotive world has also moved on to automatics for better emissions and efficiency (mpg).

DCB1951

Since I started driving on my own in 1970, I've driven and owned only MTs until I got my MY19 B9 RS5-SB. I drove Datsun (renamed to Nissan for you youngsters) 2x0Zs, S4s, and two Porsches (944T and 911 Carrera cabriolet). It's actually taken me a little time to understand the characteristics of the ZF 8HP transmission, but I can make the following observations (many have already been posted above):

1. There is noticeable turbo lag at RPM <2k. This is probably due to balancing CAFE and EU fuel efficiency requirements and customer performance demands. The trick is to keep your RPM >2k before you need or want it.
2. You can do this several ways:
   1. Keep your Drive Selector Lever in "S" mode. This is the default transmission map when Drive Select is in Dynamic mode. Engine revs higher across the board; it's much more responsive, and less fuel efficient. Decide what you want when you want it.
   2. In "D" transmission mode, use your paddle shifters more frequently to temporarily override the transmission map. I test drove a Macan Turbo before I chose the RS5; it was my one and only experience with the PDK. Smoothest automatic I've ever been in. I'm learning to approximate that smoothness by downshifting manually when the RPM is about 2,500; I can hardly feel the gear change then. Upshifts are already fantastic and need no pinpointing like the aforementioned downshifts.
   3. Put the transmission in Manual mode and drive it like a stick with the paddles. You wouldn't lug the powertrain in a manual transmission, so if you drive the B9 RS5 similarly, you should have no lag and no problems. Probably not the most fuel efficient.

I drive in mode #2 above. I value fuel efficiency as socially responsbile behavior on my part, and I don't drive it like a stole it very often. For daily driving in city and highway, "D" transmission mode with paddle shifting adjustments is the best option for me. I save "S" transmission mode for the twisties. Unfortunately, there are very few where I live. I spent 3 weeks in northern VT this summer and that's where I had plenty of open road twisties. I was in "S" transmission mode all the time with paddle shift adjustments and I had a ****ing blast.

Just my 2 centimes...

Dan99

In a previous post you said, "The DSG would fail to engage sometimes in an intersection, with a big delay. Also at low speeds in a parking lot. It was often jerky."

The programming for the B8.5 DSG was different than it was for the B8. I can't really speak to the S6, so perhaps it was different. The B8 transmission in my S4 would downshift to 1st gear while the car was slowing but still moving. This created some hairy moments when coming to a stop in traffic as the engine would also do rev matching and you could get a brief surge just as you were trying to stop. This caught me off-guard on multiple occasions in the 2 years I owned that car and, in my view, was dangerous. The B8.5 DSG in my S4 did not do that and was one of the main reasons I got rid of the B8 and bought the B8.5. The programming was changed in the B8.5 to keep the car in 2nd gear until the car remained at a full stop for a brief period. I did not experience that surge in the 6 years I drove that car. Your experience at low speeds in parking lots describes the DSG in the B8 S4, not the B8.5 S4. Again, perhaps the S6 programming was different. I might also point out that the ZF transmission in the RS5 behaves more like the DSG in the B8.5, keeping the car in 2nd gear until you come to a full stop, which avoids jerkiness during a "rolling" stop.

Regarding the DSG failing to engage, this illustrates what I posted previously about driving the DSG like it was an automatic transmission, which it is not. It is a dual clutch manual transmission that automates the shifting. In a manual transmission car you first step on the gas slightly to increase rpms, then release the clutch to the point of engagement, then simultaneously accelerate and further release the clutch. If you take that same approach with a DSG, then engagement problem you described goes away. Specifically, press the gas peddle lightly until the transmission engages, then accelerate. The DSG is a manual transmission, not an automatic. You can use this same process to control shifts as well. Accelerate, briefly back off on the accelerator like you would to shift a manual transmission, then apply pressure again. The transmission will shift. If you want to downshift, just poke the accelerator like you are rev matching before downshifting and it will shift. While the ZF transmission kinda behaves this way, it's less proficient at it.

The ZF transmission is an automatic with a torque converter. The DSG is a manual transmission with two clutches that shift for you without a clutch peddle. They have different strengths and weaknesses. For example, automatics typically experience more drive train power loss than manual transmissions, which is more relevant in a performance-oriented car like the RS5. Personally, I much prefer the DSG which I can control. The ZF is smoother in some respects, like pulling away from a dead stop, but much more difficult to control with any precision unless you are in manual mode. And, as a side note, the B8.5 DSG with the APR TCU is the smoothest shifting transmission I have ever used and way way way smoother than the ZF during acceleration. This is true while driving in traffic and at maximum acceleration on the open road.

We all have different priorities. Personally, I don't miss the clutch, but I do miss the control and smoothness under power of the DSG.

Bill17601

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. I have been totally happy with my S5 performance. I drove a RS 5 , which has a more aggressive body and more horsepower. The fact that it is a half second faster to 60 MPH is not worth, in my opinion, another $20,000. I understand that you want it but unless you track your car or like to engage in street racing your really going to be disappointed in the difference between S5 and RS5.. sometimes the biggest gun isn’t the best.

cruz02148

Thanks for all the good points comparing the DSG to the ZF in the RS5. I have never driven a manual car so I don't really know the ins and out of transmissions but this thread is giving some good insight into what the differences are. I appreciate all the tips here to help make the RS5 feel more responsive as thats something I really could tell as a stark difference from my S4. If there's any more tips of wisdom out there on how to make the RS5 feel as close to as responsive as my S4 please mention them!

m444

I had the same DSG issues on the 2016 S6 as with the 2011 S4. The 2016 S6 DSG would fail to engage sometimes in an intersection, with a big delay. Yes, the DSG is considered to be an automated manual, but it still automatically shifts.

I miss my old manual transmission 911 Porsche, but times change & life moves forward. I also don't use pay phones, dial phones & rarely write a check anymore.

The design of the ZF 8HP is quite different from the older automatic transmissions of the past and has much higher power delivery efficiency: https://www.zf.com/products/en/cars/products_29289.html