Basser box: JL subwoofer alternative
05-18-2024, 03:54 AM
#11
AudiWorld Super User
Look up and compare xmax. Since the whole thing is so shallow, the voice coil can only move so much. This usually results in lower output overall compared to a standard sub with larger voice coil. Not saying it’s true for the MPS ( Xmax mm 16,8) vs CS ( Xmax mm 12,5) but speaking generally. The MPS actually has great Xmax but twice the price as the CS.
And that crooked subwoofer mount would destroy my OCD in a classy car.
And that crooked subwoofer mount would destroy my OCD in a classy car.
For me, the JL 10W1v3-2 that I was planning on using, as most do, was going to cost around the same price as what I could get the MPS 250 S2 for locally, due to freight and taxes / duty. So worth a try. It gets a bit boring if everyone use the JL 10W1v3 in the Basser box, although they are a natural fit.
Given your local price on the Hertz CS250, it seems a bargain as it should be pretty close to the JL. So also worth a try.
I hope someone tries a JL W3v3-2. It will need a 25mm / 1" high spacer to fit, and add polyfill or similar to the Basser box to lift effective volume by around 20%. That could be pretty good.
05-18-2024, 09:15 AM
#12
https://www.wavtech-usa.com/link10001mini
How badly does the MPS 250 contact the side of the Basser Box? Is it something could be solved with removing some material on the box or would it require a cut out?
The JL 10W3 looks interesting but I’m not sure about adding the spacer. I’d have to mock it up to see how much it would intrude into the trunk.
Last edited by JohnEnglish; 05-18-2024 at 10:50 AM.
05-18-2024, 04:21 PM
#13
AudiWorld Super User
I don’t know about it’s availability in your area, but the Wavtech link1000.1mini puts out 1000w at 2Ω.
https://www.wavtech-usa.com/link10001mini
How badly does the MPS 250 contact the side of the Basser Box? Is it something could be solved with removing some material on the box or would it require a cut out?
The JL 10W3 looks interesting but I’m not sure about adding the spacer. I’d have to mock it up to see how much it would intrude into the trunk.
https://www.wavtech-usa.com/link10001mini
How badly does the MPS 250 contact the side of the Basser Box? Is it something could be solved with removing some material on the box or would it require a cut out?
The JL 10W3 looks interesting but I’m not sure about adding the spacer. I’d have to mock it up to see how much it would intrude into the trunk.
Well, the 10W3 will intrude another 25mm / 1" into the trunk than without the spacer
However, the MPS 250 may extend out almost the same amount anyway - the MPS grill is quite tall to accommodate the very high excursion. The JL 10W3 seems to sit more flush, and the SGRU-10 grill is likely more compact, although JL don't list the specs. What caught my eye with the 10W3 is that the sealed box rating is 17.7 litres - stuffing the Basser box with polyfill or similar should get very close to that in terms of effective volume.
Thanks for the link on Wavtech, it is available next door in Germany. Seems to have an inbuilt LOC, so one of the few capable of handling the B&O's 40 volts on the inputs. I won't need the extra 5dB's or so over the Kicker though, I'm more chasing quality improvements rather than volume. But for someone who wants high SPL's and decent quality out of a Basser box, the JL10W3v3-2 with that Wavtech Link1000.1 mini might be pretty good. Not sure the other 18 speakers would keep up though...
05-19-2024, 07:36 PM
#14
AudiWorld Uber User
I have found the Hertz CS 250 S2 to be nearly identical to the JL audio but maybe a tiny fraction more sensitivity. The best part was that it is HALF the price as the JL audio at $140 euro and a grill for 25 euro.
Has anybody tried these or heard them yet? I dont have the car to install it in yet but will hopefully very soon.
https://hertz-audio.com/product/cs-250-s2/
Has anybody tried these or heard them yet? I dont have the car to install it in yet but will hopefully very soon.
https://hertz-audio.com/product/cs-250-s2/
05-19-2024, 08:03 PM
#15
05-19-2024, 08:23 PM
#16
AudiWorld Member
Thread Starter
I used your spreadsheet to get the hertz tweeters for €34 and the peerless mids for €21 x3. I also bought the La Voce 8” subs at €80/pair for the front doors of my S5 that I should be picking up next week.
I’ve gone all out on the audio since it’s so cheap here in Germany and I don’t pay taxes on any of it.
05-25-2024, 11:07 PM
#18
It is not just cost, the JL 10TW3 requires a much wider opening than the Basser box's 231mm, and the vertical basket (straight) just won't fit inside the box. The JL 10TW1 will fit, but it doesn't seem to be any better than the JL 10W1v3 that most people have used, yet costs quite a bit more. The Basser enclosure is also too large for the 10TW1, and that is a low efficiency driver - you really need two of those. And it seems there is a large jump in quality between JL's W1 and W3 series.
I was not sure the Hertz MPS 250 S2 would fit, knew it would be close.
As mentioned, just needs a slight widening of the opening - the MPS250 is about 1.5mm wider. I could have forced it in, but humidity still fairly low here and didn't want any issues down the track. Took 15 minutes with a Dremel to take off a fairly small amount, could be done by hand easily enough. Per photos below, the wide basket and prominent cable connectors means the sub can only be positioned in one orientation to get it in. But it fits. I m waiting on Bruce's sub cable and the amp to arrive, so will probably be a week or so before I have it playing.
Contrary to the other bloke's view, these TW3 and MPS (which is clearly designed off JL's expired patents) designes will work well in a 15 litre enclosure, as you noted. They are specifically designed to do so - they have very wide spiders to cope with the huge excursion needed, and produce lower distortion due to the design.
The other aspect I like is it has a very high natural rolloff due to the voice coil design. I don't know what low pass order the B&O DSP is using on the subwoofer channel, but I don't want a sub that is going to conflict with the front door bass units, and end up with a muddy sound. I only just put in the Aurum Cantus AC165 units, which I got from Bruce Miranda, and they have profoundly improved bass response. I some ways, enough. Unfortunately, I have now fallen too deeply into the rabbit hole, and may as well keep going...
I was not sure the Hertz MPS 250 S2 would fit, knew it would be close.
As mentioned, just needs a slight widening of the opening - the MPS250 is about 1.5mm wider. I could have forced it in, but humidity still fairly low here and didn't want any issues down the track. Took 15 minutes with a Dremel to take off a fairly small amount, could be done by hand easily enough. Per photos below, the wide basket and prominent cable connectors means the sub can only be positioned in one orientation to get it in. But it fits. I m waiting on Bruce's sub cable and the amp to arrive, so will probably be a week or so before I have it playing.
Contrary to the other bloke's view, these TW3 and MPS (which is clearly designed off JL's expired patents) designes will work well in a 15 litre enclosure, as you noted. They are specifically designed to do so - they have very wide spiders to cope with the huge excursion needed, and produce lower distortion due to the design.
The other aspect I like is it has a very high natural rolloff due to the voice coil design. I don't know what low pass order the B&O DSP is using on the subwoofer channel, but I don't want a sub that is going to conflict with the front door bass units, and end up with a muddy sound. I only just put in the Aurum Cantus AC165 units, which I got from Bruce Miranda, and they have profoundly improved bass response. I some ways, enough. Unfortunately, I have now fallen too deeply into the rabbit hole, and may as well keep going...
05-26-2024, 11:34 AM
#19
AudiWorld Super User
I do seem to be taking one step back for every two forward. Whilst I have finished the wiring, I am not happy with the quality of the wiring supplied in the Kicker CK8 wiring kit that I purchased along with the KEY500.1 - both from a UK based eBay seller as Kicker isn't sold in Switzerland, it seems. The power and speaker cables are okay, the interconnects and remote cable are atrocious. The IC has no shielding, and is using 24AWG wire at best, could be smaller. Whilst current draw will be low, they are still having to deal with >30v from the B&O amp, and I don't think its good enough. The 12v remote wire only has to trip a relay, but it has very thin insulation and any rubbing anywhere along its length is likely to remove it.
But I will likely fire up the Hertz MPS 250 in the next day or two before I change the wiring, again. I am also considering getting a Focal SUB 10 WM to compare. Very expensive (not so bad here), but apparently works very well in the Basser box, and is very efficient. I have seen that you post on diymobileaudio.com, so assume you probably saw JimmyDee's RS5? Putting very expensive drivers in is no guarantee of improvement - it is more about which is going to blend best with the front door woofers.
My only concern with the MPS 250 is it might not come to life until it is really cranked up, which won't suit me.
Almost ready:
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Nikon1 (05-26-2024)
05-26-2024, 01:34 PM
#20
That looks really nice, please keep us updated.
I looked at the Focal but my concern was that it there is no grill available for it. I’d have to get one modeled and 3D printed.
But I will likely fire up the Hertz MPS 250 in the next day or two before I change the wiring, again. I am also considering getting a Focal SUB 10 WM to compare. Very expensive (not so bad here), but apparently works very well in the Basser box, and is very efficient. I have seen that you post on diymobileaudio.com, so assume you probably saw JimmyDee's RS5? Putting very expensive drivers in is no guarantee of improvement - it is more about which is going to blend best with the front door woofers.