Finally took a road trip. Verdict: My 3.0T Autospeed 'Beast' is HORRIBLE.
12-06-2008, 06:25 PM
#81
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One of the primary things I learned years ago, in medical risk management, was this:
There was a study done, researching the outcomes of doctors who had mistakenly amputated the wrong limbs on various patients.
The doctors who ran from the problem and ran from the patient and their families were sued and suffered severe consequences.
The doctors who exhibited true caring, regret and understanding were far less likely to even be sued.
When people feel like others 'care', the 'injured' will extend seemingly unimaginable levels of understanding and forgiveness.
If more people abided by that, there would be a lot more starving lawyers out there.
The doctors who ran from the problem and ran from the patient and their families were sued and suffered severe consequences.
The doctors who exhibited true caring, regret and understanding were far less likely to even be sued.
When people feel like others 'care', the 'injured' will extend seemingly unimaginable levels of understanding and forgiveness.
If more people abided by that, there would be a lot more starving lawyers out there.
12-07-2008, 04:39 AM
#82
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Sarge was doing MUCH more than a simple software flash... hard to compare
I have ridden in a few stage 3 ASP cars and they are great.... but a stage 3 build has become almost basic at this point and Sarge's build was not ever close to basic.
I am not knocking ASP but as I said on the NY/NJ/CT forum, I think they may have biten off more than they could chew... this was a BIG outside of the box project.
I am not knocking ASP but as I said on the NY/NJ/CT forum, I think they may have biten off more than they could chew... this was a BIG outside of the box project.
12-07-2008, 11:00 AM
#84
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What makes you think that this was build was so much more than a built stage 3?
The only difference between sarges car and a built 2.7 stage 3 is the 3 liter crank.
People have been doing stroker kits for years on small block cars.
So the rods were no big deal, the stroker kit is not that big of a deal since the 3 liter crank drops into place, the block needs to be clearanced a little, and the pistons/ rings were already engineered prior to this.
So that's the bottom end, now for the top end...
Heads aren't that big of a deal, the 2.8 heads (IIRC what sarge has) aren't that much different than the 2.7's except for the castings which are similar/ identical to rs4's. Cams again no big deal here...
Same thing with the intake manifold rs4 isn't that much different than the 2.7 except for the fuel rail.
The GT turbo kit was already developed and the parts have all been designed, so again while exotic it isn't something that is way out there.
No too mention the other work that Sarge had done there...
Stoptech BBK
Wider fender flares painted and installed
Custom made wheels spacers to fill out the above wheel flares =)
Trans rebuilt and beefed up through cryo/ REM treatment
Twin Disk clutch plate
I'm sure a flywheel of sorts
Intercooler (unsure of what)
Custom Exhaust
Downpipes
Plus Labor
It is easy to see where the big bill came from rather quickly since it was a stage 5 GT 3.0 stroker build plus all of the other goodies above.
So while it is quite the mod list it really isn't that far above and beyond a built stage 3 or stage 4 install when you really look at it IMHO.
People have been doing stroker kits for years on small block cars.
So the rods were no big deal, the stroker kit is not that big of a deal since the 3 liter crank drops into place, the block needs to be clearanced a little, and the pistons/ rings were already engineered prior to this.
So that's the bottom end, now for the top end...
Heads aren't that big of a deal, the 2.8 heads (IIRC what sarge has) aren't that much different than the 2.7's except for the castings which are similar/ identical to rs4's. Cams again no big deal here...
Same thing with the intake manifold rs4 isn't that much different than the 2.7 except for the fuel rail.
The GT turbo kit was already developed and the parts have all been designed, so again while exotic it isn't something that is way out there.
No too mention the other work that Sarge had done there...
Stoptech BBK
Wider fender flares painted and installed
Custom made wheels spacers to fill out the above wheel flares =)
Trans rebuilt and beefed up through cryo/ REM treatment
Twin Disk clutch plate
I'm sure a flywheel of sorts
Intercooler (unsure of what)
Custom Exhaust
Downpipes
Plus Labor
It is easy to see where the big bill came from rather quickly since it was a stage 5 GT 3.0 stroker build plus all of the other goodies above.
So while it is quite the mod list it really isn't that far above and beyond a built stage 3 or stage 4 install when you really look at it IMHO.
12-07-2008, 01:40 PM
#86
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Mark? Is that you?
That's precisely what Mark Slazak led me to believe.
And I still believe it's potentially true. The problem is, you have to DO all those things correctly. Not many motors work well when all the parts aren't put together correctly, machined precisely, tuned properly, etc.
In the present case, the crux of the problem is probably the combination of oil consumption from a sloppy 'stroker' build and a 'tuning' setup that MAYBE works correctly at sea level in NJ.
Not having driven to sea level (Jackson is at 6,200') I can't say - I'm just guessing based on the symptoms - but the oil burning may have already debilitated things to where it wouldn't work right there either. It's possible that the software tuning isn't as bad as I suspect, but that it's just massive oil consumption ruining everything. However, from the seat of my pants and other tuning stories I've since heard, I'd bet the tuning is a big part of the problem as well.
Maybe they gave me a 2-stroke oil-injection conversion and I just didn't read the fine print. Maybe that's the explanation.
How long can a car with this level of boost, heat and oil consumption run before the cats are clogged, O2 sensors and plugs are fouled, and further reciprocal damage is done?
Honestly, what kind of place, north of Tijuana, puts out a fresh motor build that burns oil like that? The car would surely not pass smog in most states, rendering it unregisterable and unsalable.
Nice job, ASP. On the 'sales job', anyway.
And I still believe it's potentially true. The problem is, you have to DO all those things correctly. Not many motors work well when all the parts aren't put together correctly, machined precisely, tuned properly, etc.
In the present case, the crux of the problem is probably the combination of oil consumption from a sloppy 'stroker' build and a 'tuning' setup that MAYBE works correctly at sea level in NJ.
Not having driven to sea level (Jackson is at 6,200') I can't say - I'm just guessing based on the symptoms - but the oil burning may have already debilitated things to where it wouldn't work right there either. It's possible that the software tuning isn't as bad as I suspect, but that it's just massive oil consumption ruining everything. However, from the seat of my pants and other tuning stories I've since heard, I'd bet the tuning is a big part of the problem as well.
Maybe they gave me a 2-stroke oil-injection conversion and I just didn't read the fine print. Maybe that's the explanation.
How long can a car with this level of boost, heat and oil consumption run before the cats are clogged, O2 sensors and plugs are fouled, and further reciprocal damage is done?
Honestly, what kind of place, north of Tijuana, puts out a fresh motor build that burns oil like that? The car would surely not pass smog in most states, rendering it unregisterable and unsalable.
Nice job, ASP. On the 'sales job', anyway.
12-07-2008, 01:49 PM
#87
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Haha no but his post made it sound like your build was so completely far out of the ordinary
when it is not.
I am not disagreeing with you that everything must be done correctly just trying to educate people about some of the mods.
I have been at ASP a few times and inquired about your car as a fellow AR owner.
In all seriousness though even a 3.0 build isn't that far out of the realm when you look at what other enthusiasts are doing.
I am not disagreeing with you that everything must be done correctly just trying to educate people about some of the mods.
I have been at ASP a few times and inquired about your car as a fellow AR owner.
In all seriousness though even a 3.0 build isn't that far out of the realm when you look at what other enthusiasts are doing.
12-07-2008, 05:08 PM
#89
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I know Sarge's project was much more complex, however
how many companies go over you car for an hour before flashing it. I am not taking sides here, but merely saying that my experience with them exceeded mt expectations.
Also, there are plenty of stage 3 ASP cars on the road with absolutley zero issues. I don't think you can make accusations without knowing how Sarges car went from being running just fine to showing up at delivery being clearly vanadalized.
Also, there are plenty of stage 3 ASP cars on the road with absolutley zero issues. I don't think you can make accusations without knowing how Sarges car went from being running just fine to showing up at delivery being clearly vanadalized.
12-07-2008, 05:12 PM
#90
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all I'm saying is who knows what happened to your car given the condition is was delivered in
agreed however they should be returning your phone calls. I really hope you guys can work thru this.