New Car and Driver Magazine
03-03-2003, 09:57 AM
#11
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Perhaps I should amend my statement to say among the early "upscale" versions. . .
The allroad did not truly pioneer the concept, yet they were "early" in the more lux oriented marketplace.
03-03-2003, 10:02 AM
#12
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Re: Agreed...but I don't even give the allroad the "cross-over" label...
I know you have stong convictions and I generally agree with them. My question and my opinions come in part from having participated in a local Jeep Jamboree (at a local golf course where dirt mounds and obstacles were set up) and in an audi allroad comparison which had the allroad doing, what appeared and felt like, most of the same things that the Jeeps were put through.
If SUW and SUV mean wagon and vehicle, then I agree, thinking that the allroad is 5/8 car station wagon and 3/8's "off road" capable (not that I ever take mine off road any more than I ever took my Jeep Grand off roading.)
Perhaps we are more in agreement than I first thought, Finman.
If SUW and SUV mean wagon and vehicle, then I agree, thinking that the allroad is 5/8 car station wagon and 3/8's "off road" capable (not that I ever take mine off road any more than I ever took my Jeep Grand off roading.)
Perhaps we are more in agreement than I first thought, Finman.
03-03-2003, 10:03 AM
#13
Not to mention the Volvo Cross Country.
The allroad may be one of the best, but I agree it certainly is not the first.
In my new Motor Trend mag they do mention the allroad twice in the FX45 review.
In my new Motor Trend mag they do mention the allroad twice in the FX45 review.
03-03-2003, 10:36 AM
#15
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Hmmm... V70XC - '98+, RX300 - '99+, allroad - '01+... But, you're getting closer. =)
Whether we like them or not, the market in general considers Lexus and Volvo as luxury vehicle manufacturers too.
Now, if you said that the allroad is the first cross-over/SUW type vehicle that appealed to you, there'd be nothing to dispute. ;-) In fact, I'd have to say that the same is true for me!
Now, if you said that the allroad is the first cross-over/SUW type vehicle that appealed to you, there'd be nothing to dispute. ;-) In fact, I'd have to say that the same is true for me!
heh
03-03-2003, 03:06 PM
#18
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The only other distinction I make is that with my stated 3 SUWs, including the allroad...
they are all wagons that are virtually identical to their non-SUW versions except for ride-height and a few other little things like cladding or such.
Vehicles like the RX300 may be based on a Camry but you don't really see the Camry...it is not simply a Camry wagon riding high...same for the FX, it is not just a G35 wagon up high. Crossovers share chassis with another car, but aren't virtually identical to a wagon version that already exists.
The allroad, Cross-Country, and Outback all have a near identical non-sport-utility wagon version unlike the crossovers.
Vehicles like the RX300 may be based on a Camry but you don't really see the Camry...it is not simply a Camry wagon riding high...same for the FX, it is not just a G35 wagon up high. Crossovers share chassis with another car, but aren't virtually identical to a wagon version that already exists.
The allroad, Cross-Country, and Outback all have a near identical non-sport-utility wagon version unlike the crossovers.
03-03-2003, 03:37 PM
#19
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True, True...
Now bring your S6 down the trail and tell me it's the same wagon as my allroad. ;-)
I actually do understand your point a bit better now. I still feel it's fair to call a vehicle, identically shaped to it's pavement bound counterpart, a crossover (i.e. Legacy Outback vs Legacy Wagon), simply because of it's different intended function. It would be simple to change a few body panels for appearance, but I'm not sure that *should* suffice to create a new marketing niche - though it appears to work that way for most consumers.
Example MDX. A Honda Odessy minivan by any other name... is still a Honda Odessy Minivan. But, I see what you're getting at - and using your well defined terms, the Wagons we like would not be Crossovers. Either way, it's fine by me. =)
I actually do understand your point a bit better now. I still feel it's fair to call a vehicle, identically shaped to it's pavement bound counterpart, a crossover (i.e. Legacy Outback vs Legacy Wagon), simply because of it's different intended function. It would be simple to change a few body panels for appearance, but I'm not sure that *should* suffice to create a new marketing niche - though it appears to work that way for most consumers.
Example MDX. A Honda Odessy minivan by any other name... is still a Honda Odessy Minivan. But, I see what you're getting at - and using your well defined terms, the Wagons we like would not be Crossovers. Either way, it's fine by me. =)
03-03-2003, 04:53 PM
#20
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In other words, you define "crossover" from a cosmetic standpoint.
My guess is that the allroad would equal or exceed the capabilities of the RX300 in any offroad situation, and I'm pretty sure it can do the same on the road. Functionally, then, I would say that the allroad "crosses over" to a greater degree than the Lexus does.