SUV's SUCK
02-21-2003, 10:10 AM
#11
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Disagree.
"2. This is america. We are allowed to have freedom of choice. "
BS. There are many cars that are unavailable to us due to federal over-regulation. I don't have freedom of choice to drive 80-90mph that I and my ar are fully capable of doing.
3. If you hit me with your POS Hyundai and it folds up against my SUV, that's your damm problem. I want MY vehicle to be as as safe as possible, and SUV's have low insurance rates because they are indeed safe.
Insurance is a shared risk concept. SUVs cause higher injury clains on other vehicles. Guess who ends up paying for all those costs? Everyone.
4. No, they are not the ultimate "**** everyone else" vehicles. I don't know anybody who buys one for that purpose. It would seem it's your attitude that causes you to perceive them in that manner.
That seems to define the Hummer approach. Absolutely no need for this vehicle *on* the road other than to intimidate.
5. SUV's use no more gas than any number of high performance hot rods, sports cars, and high performance sedans. There's more than a few BMW's, Porsches, MBZ's, Lamborghini's, Ferraris, etc., that get in the low teens to high single digits in terms of gas mileage.
But SUVs are being driven by millions more people than the specialized sports models you cite.
SUVs have a place for those who need them although a decent pickup truck is always better.
The definition of SUVs is getting blurry though. To me it means a large, body on frame truck based vehicle. In short, a tarted up pickup that gets used for nothing except groceries. Many of the newer crossovers are barely SUVs since they incorporate far better handling and stability than traditional ones, and make far more sense.
BS. There are many cars that are unavailable to us due to federal over-regulation. I don't have freedom of choice to drive 80-90mph that I and my ar are fully capable of doing.
3. If you hit me with your POS Hyundai and it folds up against my SUV, that's your damm problem. I want MY vehicle to be as as safe as possible, and SUV's have low insurance rates because they are indeed safe.
Insurance is a shared risk concept. SUVs cause higher injury clains on other vehicles. Guess who ends up paying for all those costs? Everyone.
4. No, they are not the ultimate "**** everyone else" vehicles. I don't know anybody who buys one for that purpose. It would seem it's your attitude that causes you to perceive them in that manner.
That seems to define the Hummer approach. Absolutely no need for this vehicle *on* the road other than to intimidate.
5. SUV's use no more gas than any number of high performance hot rods, sports cars, and high performance sedans. There's more than a few BMW's, Porsches, MBZ's, Lamborghini's, Ferraris, etc., that get in the low teens to high single digits in terms of gas mileage.
But SUVs are being driven by millions more people than the specialized sports models you cite.
SUVs have a place for those who need them although a decent pickup truck is always better.
The definition of SUVs is getting blurry though. To me it means a large, body on frame truck based vehicle. In short, a tarted up pickup that gets used for nothing except groceries. Many of the newer crossovers are barely SUVs since they incorporate far better handling and stability than traditional ones, and make far more sense.
02-21-2003, 10:22 AM
#12
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beg to differ
1. there's a difference between a foreign made vehicle that doesn't meet american regs vs. a domestically produced suv designed for our market.
2. while insurance is shared risk, if you look at the NHSTA injury index, SUV's tend to have lower injury indexes. The bottom line is you want to be safe in your own car, and SUV's by and large are very safe.
3. A Hummer is no different than any other specialized vehicle. Who can say that there's a "need" for a wagon with two turbos and an adjustable suspension. Apparently not too many, as they don't sell very many of our allroads do they? Who "needs" a Porsche 996 turbo X50 that does 0-60 in 3.9 sec and has a top speed close to 200 mph? Who "needs" an MBZ S55 with it's 495 hp engine and resulting low gas mileage? Some people are a lot more "intimidated" by a Ferrari than a Hummer.
4. my point was if you add up all the specialized vehicles that get poor gas mileage, all the old hot rods and old sedans that both have poor gas mileage and are gross polluters, that's a pretty significant percentage of the driving public. But some complain about suv's only because of their political leanings, since the liberal left has made suv's into their cause celebre.
Pickup trucks are cool, but they don't carry the people that suv's can.
2. while insurance is shared risk, if you look at the NHSTA injury index, SUV's tend to have lower injury indexes. The bottom line is you want to be safe in your own car, and SUV's by and large are very safe.
3. A Hummer is no different than any other specialized vehicle. Who can say that there's a "need" for a wagon with two turbos and an adjustable suspension. Apparently not too many, as they don't sell very many of our allroads do they? Who "needs" a Porsche 996 turbo X50 that does 0-60 in 3.9 sec and has a top speed close to 200 mph? Who "needs" an MBZ S55 with it's 495 hp engine and resulting low gas mileage? Some people are a lot more "intimidated" by a Ferrari than a Hummer.
4. my point was if you add up all the specialized vehicles that get poor gas mileage, all the old hot rods and old sedans that both have poor gas mileage and are gross polluters, that's a pretty significant percentage of the driving public. But some complain about suv's only because of their political leanings, since the liberal left has made suv's into their cause celebre.
Pickup trucks are cool, but they don't carry the people that suv's can.
02-21-2003, 10:51 AM
#15
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I'm totally diggin this genius
OK here we go
1. There is plenty wrong with high profit when it is obtained irresponsibly. The crack dealer on the corner has high profit. Anything wrong with that? The point is there are other things which are more important with profit. Like preservation of a limited natural resource and other peoples' lives.
2/3. The "this is America argument" is wonderful. There are limits to one's liberty when that individual is forced to live/function in a society filled with other individuals. Remember you can't scream "fire" in a packed movie theater. Well you can't drive an 18-wheeler on every road, though you might want to because they are really safe, look tough and can really haul all your kids, your inlaws, and the dog. Plus you could run over those pesky Hyundai's all the better. Yes, this is America (a land where we consume far in excess of our proportional share of the world's goods) -- and we have rules that tend to level the playing field so that people who can't necessarily afford an SUV don't have to run scared in their smaller/cheaper "POS's."
4. Eveyone buys their SUV's to say FU to others. They simply don't realize it. My attitude is irrelevent (but thanks for your personal attack). They buy them for the perception that they represent increased safety (debatable -- as their dynamic or active safety capabilities are far worse than "regular cars"), the feeling of a high driving position, the status, and sometimes for the utilty. With the exception of the latter, all of the reasons listed above are emotional responses to some inner need to dominate/ or at least feel superior or invulnerable. This is the FU syndrome and you can deny it all you want. Thats part of the problem. I'll give you the towing. Where I live, NO ONE tows anything. Many people commute in these behemoths with one person driving and the rest of the car along for the ride. Hey dude, yeah its America and thats why everyone else hates us. We consume irresponsibly.
5. Comparing fuel efficiency of SUVs to high performance cars that are built and sold in small numbers misses the point (again.) The problem is that SUV's are sold in the hundreds of thousands; all of the other cars you mentioned account for one tenth of SUV sales. Its a question of sheer volume. Our best sellers are our least efficient products. When I see 12 Lamborghini's and 15 Ferraris on my drive to work, then I'll accept your (poorly conceived) argument.
6. Finally NO ONE NEEDS an SUV. How do I know this? 25 years ago they didn't exist. How did we all function? We had station wagons. Now we have minivans -- arguably far more space and fuel efficient than any SUV out there. Again, I'll give you the towing-- a small percentage of actual users.
7. Your intolerance of my opinion is truly the only anti-American idea that has been expressed. Arguing in favor of more fuel efficient, more impact-friendly, more environmentally correct vehicles is simply good sense. I aint asking you to Ban SUVs. I just wish we as consumers would use our brains when purchasing a vehicle. Problem is it is very much an emotional decision and certain cars appeal to us on an instinctive/subliminal level. People who drive SUVs either have a need to dominate/feel superior, are incredibly insecure, just want to follow the yuppie trend. I reject all of those as legitimate reasons to buy a vehicle.
1. There is plenty wrong with high profit when it is obtained irresponsibly. The crack dealer on the corner has high profit. Anything wrong with that? The point is there are other things which are more important with profit. Like preservation of a limited natural resource and other peoples' lives.
2/3. The "this is America argument" is wonderful. There are limits to one's liberty when that individual is forced to live/function in a society filled with other individuals. Remember you can't scream "fire" in a packed movie theater. Well you can't drive an 18-wheeler on every road, though you might want to because they are really safe, look tough and can really haul all your kids, your inlaws, and the dog. Plus you could run over those pesky Hyundai's all the better. Yes, this is America (a land where we consume far in excess of our proportional share of the world's goods) -- and we have rules that tend to level the playing field so that people who can't necessarily afford an SUV don't have to run scared in their smaller/cheaper "POS's."
4. Eveyone buys their SUV's to say FU to others. They simply don't realize it. My attitude is irrelevent (but thanks for your personal attack). They buy them for the perception that they represent increased safety (debatable -- as their dynamic or active safety capabilities are far worse than "regular cars"), the feeling of a high driving position, the status, and sometimes for the utilty. With the exception of the latter, all of the reasons listed above are emotional responses to some inner need to dominate/ or at least feel superior or invulnerable. This is the FU syndrome and you can deny it all you want. Thats part of the problem. I'll give you the towing. Where I live, NO ONE tows anything. Many people commute in these behemoths with one person driving and the rest of the car along for the ride. Hey dude, yeah its America and thats why everyone else hates us. We consume irresponsibly.
5. Comparing fuel efficiency of SUVs to high performance cars that are built and sold in small numbers misses the point (again.) The problem is that SUV's are sold in the hundreds of thousands; all of the other cars you mentioned account for one tenth of SUV sales. Its a question of sheer volume. Our best sellers are our least efficient products. When I see 12 Lamborghini's and 15 Ferraris on my drive to work, then I'll accept your (poorly conceived) argument.
6. Finally NO ONE NEEDS an SUV. How do I know this? 25 years ago they didn't exist. How did we all function? We had station wagons. Now we have minivans -- arguably far more space and fuel efficient than any SUV out there. Again, I'll give you the towing-- a small percentage of actual users.
7. Your intolerance of my opinion is truly the only anti-American idea that has been expressed. Arguing in favor of more fuel efficient, more impact-friendly, more environmentally correct vehicles is simply good sense. I aint asking you to Ban SUVs. I just wish we as consumers would use our brains when purchasing a vehicle. Problem is it is very much an emotional decision and certain cars appeal to us on an instinctive/subliminal level. People who drive SUVs either have a need to dominate/feel superior, are incredibly insecure, just want to follow the yuppie trend. I reject all of those as legitimate reasons to buy a vehicle.
02-21-2003, 11:30 AM
#17
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It can and does tow a 5000 lbs trailer!
If you have 8000 lbs to tow then you are in the less than 1% who could actually use an SUV or better yet a desiel truck! But few people need that ability!
02-21-2003, 11:35 AM
#19
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Problem is...
in collisions SUVs have a nasty tendency to kill the occupants of the cars that they hit -- mostly because of the issues that you brought up (i.e. incompatible bumper heights).
It would be one thing if all they did was roll over, but unfortunately they also hit things.
It would be one thing if all they did was roll over, but unfortunately they also hit things.
02-21-2003, 11:37 AM
#20
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not with a full load of people and gear it doesn't....
Eurovan has what, a 160hp engine? The suburban develops close to 500ft lb of torque and is geared down low. When you go up a hill with a full load of people, it makes it no prob. Last time I was in a Eurovan, with just a full load of people and no trailer, it had a tough time on any hills. Not to knock the concept, cause I think it's a great vehicle, but the Eurovan just isn't designed for towing anything really substantial. It may be rated for 5000lbs, but if you do that more than very infrequently, you'll end up with burnt out brakes, overheated engine, toasted tranny etc.