T1R impression after 200 miles....
03-14-2006, 06:15 AM
#1
T1R impression after 200 miles....
Comparing the tires to my 3/32 F1 GS-D3 96Y tires:
- Ride.... These tires are nothing short of amazing in ride comfort. They are actually more compliant on bumps than my 17" snows. The allroad has never had a more comfortable ride.
- Noise.... equally as quiet as the F1's on all but one type of pavement. On one local stretch of concrete highway, these tires sing as much as the snows whereas the F1's were pretty quiet. But only on this one stretch and even the Explorer's Michelins sing.
- Turn-in response.... not a crisp as the F1's. But that could be attributed to difference in tread depth. Still very nice, and better than my previous Michelin Pilot Sport A/S were even when worn down.
- Dry Grip.... noticably lower than the worn down F1's. Still extremely grippy, but not on the same level as the Goodyears. Perhaps this will improve with time. The one place the Toyos excel is in a bumpy turn. The F1's have a tendency to hop sideways in the rear, but the Toyos stay planted. I have one turn I take daily that has 2 frost heaves across the road at turn in and apex. The Toyos get through this turn faster and with more confidence.
- Wet.... So far seem to be as good as the F1's at shedding off water. We had some pretty heavy rain and I made it a point to go out and play. The one place they drop below the F1 is it aggressive wet cornering. The F1's feel more predictable in a corner. Toyos are still nice but the F1 rules in the wet corners. Toto tread has tighter blocks on the shoulders than the F1 so may not shed as well.
So my opinion? The December Car and Driver is pretty much right on. The Toyo appears to give up a bit of all-out performance for better everyday street livability. I love them. I didn't buy an allroad to be an RS4, but to be a fun and civilized car. The Toyos give back some of the civility that was lost with the move to the 18" F1's.
Added benefit- BBS RX is 6 lbs lighter per corner, and the Toyo is 1.5 lbs lighter than the Goodyear, so I've lost 7.5lbs per corner, or 13% weight reduction. Wonder how much that plays into the ride comfort.
- Ride.... These tires are nothing short of amazing in ride comfort. They are actually more compliant on bumps than my 17" snows. The allroad has never had a more comfortable ride.
- Noise.... equally as quiet as the F1's on all but one type of pavement. On one local stretch of concrete highway, these tires sing as much as the snows whereas the F1's were pretty quiet. But only on this one stretch and even the Explorer's Michelins sing.
- Turn-in response.... not a crisp as the F1's. But that could be attributed to difference in tread depth. Still very nice, and better than my previous Michelin Pilot Sport A/S were even when worn down.
- Dry Grip.... noticably lower than the worn down F1's. Still extremely grippy, but not on the same level as the Goodyears. Perhaps this will improve with time. The one place the Toyos excel is in a bumpy turn. The F1's have a tendency to hop sideways in the rear, but the Toyos stay planted. I have one turn I take daily that has 2 frost heaves across the road at turn in and apex. The Toyos get through this turn faster and with more confidence.
- Wet.... So far seem to be as good as the F1's at shedding off water. We had some pretty heavy rain and I made it a point to go out and play. The one place they drop below the F1 is it aggressive wet cornering. The F1's feel more predictable in a corner. Toyos are still nice but the F1 rules in the wet corners. Toto tread has tighter blocks on the shoulders than the F1 so may not shed as well.
So my opinion? The December Car and Driver is pretty much right on. The Toyo appears to give up a bit of all-out performance for better everyday street livability. I love them. I didn't buy an allroad to be an RS4, but to be a fun and civilized car. The Toyos give back some of the civility that was lost with the move to the 18" F1's.
Added benefit- BBS RX is 6 lbs lighter per corner, and the Toyo is 1.5 lbs lighter than the Goodyear, so I've lost 7.5lbs per corner, or 13% weight reduction. Wonder how much that plays into the ride comfort.
03-14-2006, 07:05 AM
#2
Very nice write up, it sounds like the T1R lost out on perfomance and handling vs. the
older T1S. Did you run some tests with different tire pressures? This could lead to a change in the results. Coming April, I'd planned to test the T1R on the VIR track since the T1S were such a great track tire w/o compromising the ride quality overall.
How is the stopping behavior with these tires? The T1S were outstanding, in both, wet and dry conditions.
I guess there is not much of a chance that you might have some skid pad data for comparison. That would be something we could start collecting for future references....just a thought.
Thanks for sharing !
How is the stopping behavior with these tires? The T1S were outstanding, in both, wet and dry conditions.
I guess there is not much of a chance that you might have some skid pad data for comparison. That would be something we could start collecting for future references....just a thought.
Thanks for sharing !
03-14-2006, 08:07 AM
#3
I'm running 35 front/ 33 rear which is exactly what I ran with the Goodyears....
I haven't tried altering pressures yet. I have a feeling that the Toyos need more air. What did you run in your T1S's? Supposed to be the same carcass.
Dry braking is subjective because of the tread depth differences again. But feels like the F1's have the edge there too. Let me make my drive from Chicago to Des Moines tomorrow and back on Friday (600 miles) and see how they feel after that. Based on the weather predictions for here, may get to test them in 6+" of snow too. That would be a bummer.
Dry braking is subjective because of the tread depth differences again. But feels like the F1's have the edge there too. Let me make my drive from Chicago to Des Moines tomorrow and back on Friday (600 miles) and see how they feel after that. Based on the weather predictions for here, may get to test them in 6+" of snow too. That would be a bummer.
03-14-2006, 09:11 AM
#5
I used (most times) 38/40 front and 36 rear and for track days I started of with 32 until
the tire got some heat and pressure was showing high 30's or low 40's, here I've had the very best traction. Small increments of about 2 psi are the best way to achieve good results.
Have fun at your drive to Des Moines, and be safe!
Have fun at your drive to Des Moines, and be safe!
03-14-2006, 11:37 AM
#7
I'll try airing up this afternoon and try. For the track...
My rule of thumb with street tires (per BFG Engineers) is to optimize for a raise in pressure of between 5-7 lbs. If the pressure goes up more than that, you started too low. And vise versa if it only went up a few lbs. Been many years since I've tracked on street tires. Always ran on R-compound. and may again if I can find a size that works.
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03-14-2006, 11:45 AM
#8
There is a challenge....if you can find some cheap priced R-compound tires then let us know.
So far I haven't seen anything below 300 a piece and that is just too much for an allroad track day ;-)
03-14-2006, 11:50 AM
#9
Closest I've come is the RT-615 Falken in 255/40-18 at low $200's.
I'll see how the allroad does on the track in 2 1/2 weeks on my old tires before I invest in something else.
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