Two things: The new SAAB 9-3 and our AUDI tranny lag issues...
10-20-2002, 11:54 PM
#1
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Two things: The new SAAB 9-3 and our AUDI tranny lag issues...
First of all, the new 9-3 is a very nice looking car. I wasn't a big fan of the "SAAB Design" but this new sedan looks very nice. However, in reading the "first drive", I read a paragraph describing how the SAAB has tranny lag very similar to our problems. Looks like we're stuck with it and that in the new world of drive-by-wire and automatic transmissions, it's becoming more and more common.
From the review:
After being thoroughly impressed with the manual-shift Vector, we climbed into a base 9-3 Linear equipped with the five-speed automatic. Although the Saab's comfortable seats and excellent ride quality remained, the Linear's lethargic nature when trying to accelerate left us cold. What at first seemed like severe turbo lag from the 175-horsepower low-pressure turbo engine was quickly diagnosed as <B>transmission lag</B> when mashing the throttle. Under part-throttle conditions, the problem wasn't nearly as obvious, <B>but ask for a sudden burst of acceleration, from either a dead stop or when rolling at speed, and there is an almost painful delay between when the pedal hits the floor and when the car finally bolts forward.</B>
"continued"... take this issue as you will, but we think a brand-new totally redesigned "sport sedan" shouldn't <B>allow you to count "one-one-thousand" between flooring it and having the drivetrain respond.</B>
The whole article can be found <A HREF="http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/firstdrive/69816/article.html">here</A>. Note: There was no difference between the 175hp and 210hp engines as far as tranny lag went.
Anyhow... here are some images of the new 9-3... luckily it's available in 6 speed. I'm kinda worried that Audi is going away from manual cars (RS6, S4, S8, etc) and the fact that this tranny lag is present.
<img src="http://www2.saabusa.com/new93/images/front1.jpg">
<img src="http://www2.saabusa.com/new93/images/side1.jpg">
<img src="http://www2.saabusa.com/new93/images/dash1.jpg">
<img src="http://www2.saabusa.com/new93/images/rear1.jpg">
From the review:
After being thoroughly impressed with the manual-shift Vector, we climbed into a base 9-3 Linear equipped with the five-speed automatic. Although the Saab's comfortable seats and excellent ride quality remained, the Linear's lethargic nature when trying to accelerate left us cold. What at first seemed like severe turbo lag from the 175-horsepower low-pressure turbo engine was quickly diagnosed as <B>transmission lag</B> when mashing the throttle. Under part-throttle conditions, the problem wasn't nearly as obvious, <B>but ask for a sudden burst of acceleration, from either a dead stop or when rolling at speed, and there is an almost painful delay between when the pedal hits the floor and when the car finally bolts forward.</B>
"continued"... take this issue as you will, but we think a brand-new totally redesigned "sport sedan" shouldn't <B>allow you to count "one-one-thousand" between flooring it and having the drivetrain respond.</B>
The whole article can be found <A HREF="http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/firstdrive/69816/article.html">here</A>. Note: There was no difference between the 175hp and 210hp engines as far as tranny lag went.
Anyhow... here are some images of the new 9-3... luckily it's available in 6 speed. I'm kinda worried that Audi is going away from manual cars (RS6, S4, S8, etc) and the fact that this tranny lag is present.
<img src="http://www2.saabusa.com/new93/images/front1.jpg">
<img src="http://www2.saabusa.com/new93/images/side1.jpg">
<img src="http://www2.saabusa.com/new93/images/dash1.jpg">
<img src="http://www2.saabusa.com/new93/images/rear1.jpg">
10-21-2002, 05:28 AM
#4
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My Bro In Law Had 2
9-5s. First one - engine blew in the first 10K miles and Saab said they would replace the engine. He threatend suit and they offered to give him a new car if he signed a gag order. Second car also had many problems and he recently traded for a Ford Explorer. I also know peole that have driven 900s / 9-3s for many many miles with no issues. Saabs tend to be either really good or really bad but overall not worth the risk IMO.
10-21-2002, 06:12 AM
#5
I didn't experience any lag on my '99 9-5 V-6, and ...
I had no mechanical difficulties with it over the 51,000 miles I put on the car. I love my allroad, but I liked my Saab as well. Saab bashing seems to be prevalent on many forums, but honestly, if there'd been room for my feet in the new 9-5's I might have bought an Aero wagon without even trying the allroad. Quality problems in the late 80's and early 90's seemed to be endemic in the auto industry, Saab and Audi included, but I think general quality issues for most cars have been addressed fairly well by the manufacturers over the past few years.
10-21-2002, 07:36 AM
#6
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Very Interesting...
I am suppose to go down and test drive one of these (just for fun) in a few weeks when Saab has a service clinic. I will have to see if it is like the allroad tip. The number one driver to me dumping my allroad was the hesitation at take-off.
What is surprising is that the new 5 speed transmission they put in the 9-5 series doesn't have this issue at all and is one of the best autos I have ever driven. I had a Linear 9-5 automatic as a loaner and I was blown away by how fast it was in "sport" mode.
It would be interesting to find-out if the new Saab tranny has a "sport" mode similar to the 9-5. This might account for the lag.
I really like the looks of the new 9-3. I think Saab is starting to become more mainstream - not sure if I care for that or not.
Reliabilty wise I think Saab and Audi are equal. I have owned two audis and two Saabs. Overall the Saabs have had better overall reliability and the Saab service was far superior. While I like Saabs styling the overall build quality (in terms of materials) of an Audi A6 and up is second to none.
As always I will always consider both makes on my short list. Lucky for me I get bored with cars every 2 years or so. I probably would have kept the allroad longer if I had been smart enough to get a 6 speed in the first place. No more automatics for me until I can't shift!
Oh yeah -- since we are talking about the Sweeds -- another topic since I haven't posted in a while -- My dad has an allroad and my sister a Volvo XC - While overall I the allroad is the allroad needs to borrow the seats from the XC. Man those Sweeds know their leather and comfort.
What is surprising is that the new 5 speed transmission they put in the 9-5 series doesn't have this issue at all and is one of the best autos I have ever driven. I had a Linear 9-5 automatic as a loaner and I was blown away by how fast it was in "sport" mode.
It would be interesting to find-out if the new Saab tranny has a "sport" mode similar to the 9-5. This might account for the lag.
I really like the looks of the new 9-3. I think Saab is starting to become more mainstream - not sure if I care for that or not.
Reliabilty wise I think Saab and Audi are equal. I have owned two audis and two Saabs. Overall the Saabs have had better overall reliability and the Saab service was far superior. While I like Saabs styling the overall build quality (in terms of materials) of an Audi A6 and up is second to none.
As always I will always consider both makes on my short list. Lucky for me I get bored with cars every 2 years or so. I probably would have kept the allroad longer if I had been smart enough to get a 6 speed in the first place. No more automatics for me until I can't shift!
Oh yeah -- since we are talking about the Sweeds -- another topic since I haven't posted in a while -- My dad has an allroad and my sister a Volvo XC - While overall I the allroad is the allroad needs to borrow the seats from the XC. Man those Sweeds know their leather and comfort.
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10-21-2002, 08:53 AM
#8
You're right, Neb, and it certainly might have made a difference.
And as we say in my business, past performance is no guarantee of future results. (Unless, I suppose, one refers to the ALMS Audi RS8's.)
10-21-2002, 10:34 AM
#9
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The new S4 has a stick...
Audi is not "going away" from sticks...well, at least not completely...
Realistically Audi recognizes that large cars (A6-size and above) and expensive cars (especially > $50k) are bought overwhelmingly by older people (I call them "farts") who prefer automatics. In Europe by the end of 2000, only 8% of S6s sold there were sold as sticks...and that's Europe which is stick-happy compared to the U.S....therefore, Audi killed the manual for the S6 entirely. S8s would have even less demand, theoretically. RS 6s, IMO, would have a greater initial demand for manuals than the S6 or S8, but still have a heavy dominance of automatics...especially given the majority of people who could afford an $80k+ vehicle.
The M5 is unique...attracting a subset of buyers who are willing to "put up with" a stick for the benefit of owning the BMW beast...but one will also note the high frequency of trade-ins and sales of M5s within a year of ownership due to annoyance with the manual transmission.
I'd still prefer a good stick.
Realistically Audi recognizes that large cars (A6-size and above) and expensive cars (especially > $50k) are bought overwhelmingly by older people (I call them "farts") who prefer automatics. In Europe by the end of 2000, only 8% of S6s sold there were sold as sticks...and that's Europe which is stick-happy compared to the U.S....therefore, Audi killed the manual for the S6 entirely. S8s would have even less demand, theoretically. RS 6s, IMO, would have a greater initial demand for manuals than the S6 or S8, but still have a heavy dominance of automatics...especially given the majority of people who could afford an $80k+ vehicle.
The M5 is unique...attracting a subset of buyers who are willing to "put up with" a stick for the benefit of owning the BMW beast...but one will also note the high frequency of trade-ins and sales of M5s within a year of ownership due to annoyance with the manual transmission.
I'd still prefer a good stick.
10-21-2002, 09:09 PM
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just a thought
I don't know very much at all about transmissions and drive-by-wire. In fact, the other day, someone asked me what the benefits of having drive-by-wire were, and all i could think of was i could do the tranny reset trick without worrying about flooding my engine. Perhaps part of the reason for developing the drive-by-wire system is so they can prevent you from wearing out the tranny and the car too soon by peeling out from standstill? Anyways, i hope someone can shed some light on this and maybe get a hack.