What's wrong with this picture (or my logic)?
06-23-2004, 08:19 PM
#1
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What's wrong with this picture (or my logic)?
While doing some more research to see how hard I will be spanking my tip trans by chipping the engine I found the following info:
ZF Industries 5HP19FLA automatic used in allroad ("A" designates "all wheel drive with integrated torsen differential). Newer trans version was installed from 09/02 on per ZF charts.
Look at these numbers and tell me what we see for the 2.7T tip:
Horsepower / Torque ft-lbs/ Newton-Meters
===================================
Stock setup
250 / 258 / 350
------------------------------------
ZF rates the trans at 310 nm
-------------------------------------
APR chip 91 octane
307 / 366 / 496 nm
------------------------------------
APR chip 93 octane
318 / 382 / 518 nm
Any comments?
ZF Industries 5HP19FLA automatic used in allroad ("A" designates "all wheel drive with integrated torsen differential). Newer trans version was installed from 09/02 on per ZF charts.
Look at these numbers and tell me what we see for the 2.7T tip:
Horsepower / Torque ft-lbs/ Newton-Meters
===================================
Stock setup
250 / 258 / 350
------------------------------------
ZF rates the trans at 310 nm
-------------------------------------
APR chip 91 octane
307 / 366 / 496 nm
------------------------------------
APR chip 93 octane
318 / 382 / 518 nm
Any comments?
06-23-2004, 11:14 PM
#2
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Put a 5HP24 or 6HP26 in it... :-)
I think someone else had brought that up before a while back. Doesn't make sense, does it?
I would think it would be possible to use a 5HP24, but unsure what it might require...including the TCU/TCM.
One of the many reasons I would choose a 4.2 if I were buying a tip allroad again--you get a beefier tranny.
<a href="http://www.europeantransmissions.com/" target="_top">Rebuilt 5HP24</a><ul><li><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&tc=photo&item=79062 21882&category=33727">5HP24 on eBay</a></li></ul>
I would think it would be possible to use a 5HP24, but unsure what it might require...including the TCU/TCM.
One of the many reasons I would choose a 4.2 if I were buying a tip allroad again--you get a beefier tranny.
<a href="http://www.europeantransmissions.com/" target="_top">Rebuilt 5HP24</a><ul><li><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&tc=photo&item=79062 21882&category=33727">5HP24 on eBay</a></li></ul>
06-24-2004, 04:50 AM
#3
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That info can't be right, can it?
I very much doubt Audi would exceed ZF's recommended specs. Plus I think we would be seing alot more TIP failures.
~shrug~ Maybe I am wrong...
Gavin
~shrug~ Maybe I am wrong...
Gavin
06-24-2004, 06:48 AM
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Re: What's wrong with this picture (or my logic)?
I'm not sure if I'm getting this right, but in Scandinavia we have a limit on the Tiptronic of 420 nm.
Take a look at this: http://www.dahlbackracing.se/english/main.asp
Select Audi/A6/2,7T Allroad
Take a look at this: http://www.dahlbackracing.se/english/main.asp
Select Audi/A6/2,7T Allroad
06-24-2004, 07:00 AM
#6
Can anyone read German spec sheets? this also mentions 540nm
<center><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/55347/zf_5hp19fla.jpg"></center><p>but I am not sure to what that refers.
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06-24-2004, 05:25 PM
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The rating is under the "Transfer-ability" section.
I'm not sure if the peak torque of the engine is at 3500 rpm, but the peak torque transfer of the transmission at that speed is only 310 N m. This may not be the peak that the transmission can accommodate, but rather at that specified speed of the motor input shaft. Maximum power transferred is 230 hp at 5500 rpm (engine shaft I assume).
The 540 N m rating is for the turbine, which I am assuming is the torque converter. This would be a maximum input torque supplied by an engine, but not necessarily transferred to the transmission. The torque converter is like a viscous hydraulic clutch for the transmission. It is a drag on the engine, and the primary reason that cars with automatic transmissions have worse fuel economy than their manual counterparts. Torque converters are never efficient enough for a 1:1 transfer (like a clutch), but the discrepancy of 230 N m between what the torque converter can take as an input and the maximum that the transmission can take seems very wrong.
-- Len
The 540 N m rating is for the turbine, which I am assuming is the torque converter. This would be a maximum input torque supplied by an engine, but not necessarily transferred to the transmission. The torque converter is like a viscous hydraulic clutch for the transmission. It is a drag on the engine, and the primary reason that cars with automatic transmissions have worse fuel economy than their manual counterparts. Torque converters are never efficient enough for a 1:1 transfer (like a clutch), but the discrepancy of 230 N m between what the torque converter can take as an input and the maximum that the transmission can take seems very wrong.
-- Len