Turbo upgrade discussion
05-13-2009, 07:54 AM
#1
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Turbo upgrade discussion
So, I'm debating power adders for my 1995 Audi S6.
I have an RS2 Exhaust Manifold already, so i want to take advantage of it.
I don't want a TON of power. I'd say my goal would be about 280-300whp with good daily drivability at a good cost:hp ratio.
The basic setup would be an RS2 Turbo + the 034 RS2 Tuning kit
The problem I have with this is that the RS2 turbos are relatively expensive to buy and they're older technology.
A new turbo costs about $1300-1700 (depending on who you get it from and if they have it in stock) and the chip tuning kit is $1000
$2300-2700.
285whp, 335wtq (+100whp)
The next setup I was thinking would be the GT2871R. I like the idea of this turbo because it's newer technology and makes a bit more power than the RS2 setup
Chip Tuning kit is $1125. Turbo kit is $1765.
Total of $2890.
330whp, 320wtq (+145whp)
The next setup is the GT3071R. My biggest question is: does it require a bigger intercooler?
An intercooler install greatly adds to the cost of this. However, it's actually cheaper to do this then the above kit.
Chip Tuning kit is $1049. Turbo kit is $1820
Total of $2869
Now, I'm not sure how much power it makes on the same dynos as the RS2 and GT2871R as it looks like it was done on a different dyno, but they say 350whp and 296wtq (why does the torque seem to go down?)
The other option I'm not too familiar with is the K26/27 hybrid ($1800) and VEMS ($1400) which is $3200 for just the parts, but I assume it would need a few hours of dyno tuning, so tack on another $200-400 for tuning. I don't know much about this setup though. I know the K26/27 is still an older style non-ball bearing turbo
I'm basically looking for the simplest, cheapest installation with the least required upgrade parts. I just want to do a few bolt ons and be done with it.
I'm trying to stay under $3000 right now. Maybe in the future I'll go even crazier, but this is going to be my daily driver and I don't want to go too mental. The GT2871R seems to be the best bet for me.
What other options are there? Your input is greatly appreciated. Thanks
I have an RS2 Exhaust Manifold already, so i want to take advantage of it.
I don't want a TON of power. I'd say my goal would be about 280-300whp with good daily drivability at a good cost:hp ratio.
The basic setup would be an RS2 Turbo + the 034 RS2 Tuning kit
The problem I have with this is that the RS2 turbos are relatively expensive to buy and they're older technology.
A new turbo costs about $1300-1700 (depending on who you get it from and if they have it in stock) and the chip tuning kit is $1000
$2300-2700.
285whp, 335wtq (+100whp)
The next setup I was thinking would be the GT2871R. I like the idea of this turbo because it's newer technology and makes a bit more power than the RS2 setup
Chip Tuning kit is $1125. Turbo kit is $1765.
Total of $2890.
330whp, 320wtq (+145whp)
The next setup is the GT3071R. My biggest question is: does it require a bigger intercooler?
An intercooler install greatly adds to the cost of this. However, it's actually cheaper to do this then the above kit.
Chip Tuning kit is $1049. Turbo kit is $1820
Total of $2869
Now, I'm not sure how much power it makes on the same dynos as the RS2 and GT2871R as it looks like it was done on a different dyno, but they say 350whp and 296wtq (why does the torque seem to go down?)
The other option I'm not too familiar with is the K26/27 hybrid ($1800) and VEMS ($1400) which is $3200 for just the parts, but I assume it would need a few hours of dyno tuning, so tack on another $200-400 for tuning. I don't know much about this setup though. I know the K26/27 is still an older style non-ball bearing turbo
I'm basically looking for the simplest, cheapest installation with the least required upgrade parts. I just want to do a few bolt ons and be done with it.
I'm trying to stay under $3000 right now. Maybe in the future I'll go even crazier, but this is going to be my daily driver and I don't want to go too mental. The GT2871R seems to be the best bet for me.
What other options are there? Your input is greatly appreciated. Thanks
Last edited by Chapel; 05-14-2009 at 10:03 AM.
05-13-2009, 08:25 AM
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For any of these setups a FMIC is strongly recommended. I have 3071 pulls from the same dyno, the power is within a couple HP, same car, we did our best to calibrate our dyno to the old mustang we were using.
Here's a pile of spaghetti with most of our current offerings overlaid:
Here's a pile of spaghetti with most of our current offerings overlaid:
05-13-2009, 08:32 AM
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For any of these setups a FMIC is strongly recommended. I have 3071 pulls from the same dyno, the power is within a couple HP, same car, we did our best to calibrate our dyno to the old mustang we were using.
Here's a pile of spaghetti with most of our current offerings overlaid:
Here's a pile of spaghetti with most of our current offerings overlaid:
cool, thanks
I would assume the GT2871R would be 'ok' with the stock intercooler for regular daily driving and a few spirited pulls though?
I'm considering doing meth/water injection or possibly the old Lindsay Racing Thermal Hard Pipe. $1500 for a FMIC seems expensive. I need to do more research on a DIY FMIC
Last edited by Chapel; 05-13-2009 at 08:34 AM.
05-13-2009, 09:58 AM
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is this turbo:
http://www.034motorsport.com/product...roducts_id=196
the same as the turbo in this kit:
http://www.034motorsport.com/product...roducts_id=261
http://www.034motorsport.com/product...roducts_id=196
the same as the turbo in this kit:
http://www.034motorsport.com/product...roducts_id=261
05-13-2009, 11:15 AM
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Do the stock turbo lines work with this kit or no?
what about the stock intake boot? (I assume no on that)
05-13-2009, 04:38 PM
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just go with RS2......they pop up on Audifans for $700-$800 every few weeks. It's more straightforward than the other options (and cheaper in the long run).
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05-13-2009, 09:09 PM
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I had both a true RS2 turbo and a GT2871
Take everything I say with a grain of salt because I ran the GT2871 on the MRC RS2 software I had at the time. The parts I ran with it were MRC RS2 software, a true RS2 exhaust manifold, 034 downpipe with a custom 3 inch catless exhaust and an Apikol fmic.
To be truthful I believe that there was no difference in spool time between the two turbos. Also on RS2 software the RS2 turbo out performed the gt2871, I suppose that isn't a surprise. Another consideration to keep in mind for the Garrett hybrids is that you have to change your oil and antifreeze lines. It's not a huge deal and honestly the only one that is a pain is the coolant feed line which comes from under the intake manifold. It is a bugger to route though and does add to install time/hassle.
All the talk about sleeve vs ball bearings needs to be kept in perspective as well I think. How many RS2s are tearing around Europe still on orginal turbos? How many NA guys are flying around with RS2 turbos in their UrS? Can we honestly say that the RS2 bearings are weak? Just because they are an older design does not mean that they are not functional.
All this being said though I am going to keep my gt2871 and put it into my 94 UrS. I'll get the dedicated 034 software which I am sure will help it out. I just can not justify buying another turbo when I have a perfectly serviceable one sitting on the shelf.
Take everything I say with a grain of salt because I ran the GT2871 on the MRC RS2 software I had at the time. The parts I ran with it were MRC RS2 software, a true RS2 exhaust manifold, 034 downpipe with a custom 3 inch catless exhaust and an Apikol fmic.
To be truthful I believe that there was no difference in spool time between the two turbos. Also on RS2 software the RS2 turbo out performed the gt2871, I suppose that isn't a surprise. Another consideration to keep in mind for the Garrett hybrids is that you have to change your oil and antifreeze lines. It's not a huge deal and honestly the only one that is a pain is the coolant feed line which comes from under the intake manifold. It is a bugger to route though and does add to install time/hassle.
All the talk about sleeve vs ball bearings needs to be kept in perspective as well I think. How many RS2s are tearing around Europe still on orginal turbos? How many NA guys are flying around with RS2 turbos in their UrS? Can we honestly say that the RS2 bearings are weak? Just because they are an older design does not mean that they are not functional.
All this being said though I am going to keep my gt2871 and put it into my 94 UrS. I'll get the dedicated 034 software which I am sure will help it out. I just can not justify buying another turbo when I have a perfectly serviceable one sitting on the shelf.
05-13-2009, 10:25 PM
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If I had to do it I would get a BB turbo/injectors/chip from 034 and forget about building the motor etc. Maybe a FMIC, BPV and whatever minor bits are involved. You are into it for $3k for some good WHP numbers ( not including brakes/susp). It is a lot more money for a little more power after that point.