squidix9

you start to see a point of diminishing returns for sure. But when the boys at the factory(who have deep pockets), want HP, they get it.

There's a reason why in '89 this motor cost $45K to build.

shortyq

Don't forget that the standard issue Sport Quattro head is available from audi with the S1 emulation stuff like mechanical lifters and gear driven cams.

WRT what audisport did, don't forget that with time comes technology. The RS2 vs the Sport quattro is a perfect example, the RS2 has better HP AND torque than the sport quattro did, and the RS2 motor can be made from a standard AAN conversion (BTDT) available in the S4/6.

You might also find as you take things apart for rebuild, that very few of the audisport stuff was "specially" made. What we tend to find is that all pieces parts are HD, but usually using off the shelf (many times non marque, like mercedes truck stuff in the trans) components from other cars. A lot of other stuff can be improved, but expect a close relationship with a good machinist.

The only thing we seem to have a problem with is sourcing the rear wheel bearings for the rally strut housings, a bit of a hiccup when the part is labelled "audi sport sample".

That said, wrt engine stuff, very little of it is "custom", and *any* head work to the 20v should be on a "procede" with caution, since the casting doesn't have a lot of "meat" for hogging. (Since you have the head off, get it cked for cracks). When using unlimited funds from sponsorship/factory, this isn't a concern, when "restoring" the car on any type of budget, some compromises should be accepted in deference to longevity. BTDoingT

HTH

Scott J
SJ

squidix9

Can't argue with any of that.

Lancia did the same with the Stratos, they took stuff from all the related marques, and mashed it all together. In trying to source parts you get a vivid picture of what they did. Ferrari motor, Fiat lighting, Lancia Beta suspension.

What you also find, is that someone spent a lot of time making all these bits work together, and quite well. The biggest magic in my motor is the valve timing. There were many strict warnings from the factory, not to mess with it. And who can argue, getting 300-400 HP from a non-turbo motor is quite a feat.

I have a motor builder in Utah, who knows this motor, as I pop the head, and get the reality of what's wrong, I'm sure I'll be sending a few dollars his way.

It is quite a gut check when your car can become a lawn ornament without much trouble. I had my first experience with that getting new spherical bearings for the bottom of the struts. I had to search all over, and found a guy in Chicago who had 4 left(at $45 ea). But, then I still had to have the circlip grooves machined in them. Nothing is easy.

fusilier

I need 4 of them to mount a sway bar on a Rally subframe. The Mercedes Truck comment got me thinking that I might be able to avoid a machine shop.

&lt;p&gt;<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/38899/swaybar_03.jpg" border="0">&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;img

Here's the two back to back
&lt;p&gt;<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/38899/swaybar_04.jpg" border="0">&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;img

And the two fitted to the sway bar bushing
&lt;p&gt;<img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/38899/swaybar_05.jpg" border="0">&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;img

shortyq

My bet is if it's aluminum, it's a cam journal cap, if it's steel, it's a crank journal cap. Might want to give Bruno a call on that one, I don't think that is an audisport sourced part.

Regardless, that part shouldn't be at all a major wallet drain at any machine shop.

SJ

shortyq

I thought the 20v in N/A trim was spec'd at 240hp. Have you dyno'd yours at all? Cam timing 'should' be messed with IMO, in fact I get bummed when looking at the chained cams in that you can't do that.

I visited a shop in Chicagoland that specializes in tweeking supra turbos. They have adjustable cam gears (DOHC) on every supra from mild to wild (500-800hp). Given the clearance issues you are dealing with, I doubt there is as much room for error, but small changes in DOHC timing makes for big gains (and losses).

WRT spending a lot of time on the pieces parts, many times we have found and made improvements to the audisport stuff, it takes multiple minds and a willing machinist to help make it happen. Right now the suspension stuff and clutches are getting really rare (I'm betting you got the bearings from our driver at euroautoplex - yes?). We've been thru several revisions on the suspension since Bilstein no longer supports the shocks, finally settling on the DMS suspension adapted to the A/S stuff. We still have to figure out the upper bearing attachment, LSPR ate those up pretty good.

What is really nice is understanding the starting point that A/S spec'd cars came from. Everything is designed to be serviced and quickly. Usually built to take serious abuse. But I also think that having outside machinist input is one thing audi didn't have in it's Motorsport budget. So what "Hans" said was it, vs having a fresh mind with 30 years experience in general machine work.

Glad to see a couple cars with committed owners and ascribed fabricators.

Scott Justusson

squidix9

Cam timing should be tinkered with, but in this case it's been done already. This also doesn't have anything resembling stock cams. Both the main timing belt gear and the intake gear are adjustable. At a glance it looks like maybe 10-15 deg on each.

There is no clearance at all, at TDC the tops of the pistons protrude beyond the deck of the block, it's pretty wild.

The last time the motor was dyno'd was before the new 14:1 pistons. It was just over 300 then, if I can find a 4wd dyno, I'll have it checked again. I want to be sure that the Motronic is set for the new compression.

You're right, with parts scarce, you sometimes need to get creative.

Mine doesn't have the Bilsteins, mine are Boge. On mine you can change setting by altering the fluid levels, and they're rebuildable, so my fingers are crossed.

fusilier

Bruno doesn't think they're anything from another car, but he pretty much is a VW/Audi guy. I bought that sway bar from him, but the 4 clamps are upstate and he doesn't know where they are. I can make them myself if I have too, but thought "what the hell"; it just might be a stock part from a Unimog or something...

BTW,
have you seen a sway bar like that? The steel tapers like a blade and that part can be rotated and locked for adjustable directional sway stiffness and its connected to the control arms with eyeball linkages. He sent me the original invoice from Audi AG for that sway bar it was something like 1800 DM each in 1990.

fusilier

<center><img src="http://pictureposter.audiworld.com/38899/rallyq_24.jpg"></center><p>They're rebuildable and use fluid to control to the rates.

Have you found a good source for spares? I've got one complete set of spares and one of the four corners is pictured. So I'm all set until I start pounding the gravel. They should last forever on asphalt.

Robert Dupree knows a guy who replaced his Boge with another brand and has some internal spares you might want to contact him and make an inquiry.

squidix9

I have the same thing on mine