will Porsche kill the R8?
04-12-2007, 12:23 PM
#11
Porsche is renewing PDK.. VW/Audi licensed theirs from Borg Warner
Other random info about dual clutch transmissions:
It was invented in 1939.
Bugatti gets theirs from Ricardo Co in the UK. Due to the high price of Bugatti's dual clutch system, it not economically feasible for 'inexpensive' cars like the R8 and 911's.
Cima produces the seven-speed DCT for the Koenigsegg CCX.
Getrag is working on a dual clutch system for high power mid engine vehicles with the goal of handling 750nm.
It was invented in 1939.
Bugatti gets theirs from Ricardo Co in the UK. Due to the high price of Bugatti's dual clutch system, it not economically feasible for 'inexpensive' cars like the R8 and 911's.
Cima produces the seven-speed DCT for the Koenigsegg CCX.
Getrag is working on a dual clutch system for high power mid engine vehicles with the goal of handling 750nm.
04-12-2007, 02:13 PM
#13
it goes back to 1949 when VW's gen mngr presented Porsche with shared profits,
and uses of VW's worldwide structure, and materials (to be used for Porsche's cars) in exchange for design services. Since then, the two companies have worked together and have depended on each other.
Louise Porsche (brother of Ferry Porsche, daughter of Ferdinand Porsche) married Anton Pieche. Years later, their son Ferdinand Alexander Piech was Porsche's largest share holder as well as the chairman & CEO of Volkswagen. Prior to the VW position, Piech was with Audi. It was feared that Volkswagen (whom Porsche has relied on for decades) was subject to hostile take overs by various car makers (Daimler, BMW, Renault). This would have been bad for VW's major holder at the time, which was the lower state of Saxony.. out of fear that thousands of jobs could be lost. In a way, it is to each players advantage that VW find a stable owner.. hence Porsche stepping in with a measly ~$3bill purchase of shares. Since then, VW's stock has risen significantly (>doubling) and by 2007 they bought more in order to prevent foreign entities from buying and breaking up VW (Saxony + Porsche have just over 50%). Looking back, Porsche got a great deal on the price. BTW, since 1972 Porsche Ag had rules to prevent members of the Porsche family from management positions in the company. 1972 is when Piech left Porsche and went to work at Audi (till 1992).. and then VW after that. Piech seems to be the common thread between Audi/VW/Porsche.
"The goal of Piech, 70, may be to bring the two companies back together and run them as they were originally founded."
Audi is VW's cash cow supposedly.. with net profits up 63% last year, on about $1.77bill in sales. Piesch.. in his supervisory role.. would be smart to tell the CEO of VW to keep Audi. BTW, the latest CEO of VW started in Audi.
...I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
Louise Porsche (brother of Ferry Porsche, daughter of Ferdinand Porsche) married Anton Pieche. Years later, their son Ferdinand Alexander Piech was Porsche's largest share holder as well as the chairman & CEO of Volkswagen. Prior to the VW position, Piech was with Audi. It was feared that Volkswagen (whom Porsche has relied on for decades) was subject to hostile take overs by various car makers (Daimler, BMW, Renault). This would have been bad for VW's major holder at the time, which was the lower state of Saxony.. out of fear that thousands of jobs could be lost. In a way, it is to each players advantage that VW find a stable owner.. hence Porsche stepping in with a measly ~$3bill purchase of shares. Since then, VW's stock has risen significantly (>doubling) and by 2007 they bought more in order to prevent foreign entities from buying and breaking up VW (Saxony + Porsche have just over 50%). Looking back, Porsche got a great deal on the price. BTW, since 1972 Porsche Ag had rules to prevent members of the Porsche family from management positions in the company. 1972 is when Piech left Porsche and went to work at Audi (till 1992).. and then VW after that. Piech seems to be the common thread between Audi/VW/Porsche.
"The goal of Piech, 70, may be to bring the two companies back together and run them as they were originally founded."
Audi is VW's cash cow supposedly.. with net profits up 63% last year, on about $1.77bill in sales. Piesch.. in his supervisory role.. would be smart to tell the CEO of VW to keep Audi. BTW, the latest CEO of VW started in Audi.
...I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
04-12-2007, 09:34 PM
#15
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It was mentioned in Porsche club's Panorama magazine a couple of months ago
Speculation that Porsche would not allow the R8 to continue beyond this model/version because it competes with the 911.
We'll see what happens...
We'll see what happens...
04-13-2007, 05:09 AM
#17
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porsche announced in dec that DSG and FSI to go into all 911's in 2008 MY
this means they'd planned it a year ago, at least- since a supplier and testing have to be completed, way before porsche owned the majority of VW.
further- from what i hear on the 911 forums, it may sneak in to some of the last 2007's as a running change this summer.
and here is the rub. this means that 75% of porsche model offerings will get both DSG and FSI about 2 years (as it looks now) BEFORE audi gets that combo into as many models (by percentage).
you can argue all you want that porsche has fewer models than audi to put these into and so it is easier to raise that percentage. but what does that say of audi- who has been planning the R8 longer than that? they say officially- too expensive to develop for the V8, etc....but i think there is more to it.
like is said. these are the facts. what you want to conclude from them re: the porsche influence on poor audi is your own choice. i think it is too bad for audi. here we have the A5 and the car will have a tiptronic. riddle me that.
the boxster will likely get DSG before the A5 does. we'll see.<ul><li><a href="http://autonewsguide.com/news/911-Refresh-Porsche-adds-direct-injection-and-DSG-for-2008/">DSG and FSI to 911</a></li></ul>
further- from what i hear on the 911 forums, it may sneak in to some of the last 2007's as a running change this summer.
and here is the rub. this means that 75% of porsche model offerings will get both DSG and FSI about 2 years (as it looks now) BEFORE audi gets that combo into as many models (by percentage).
you can argue all you want that porsche has fewer models than audi to put these into and so it is easier to raise that percentage. but what does that say of audi- who has been planning the R8 longer than that? they say officially- too expensive to develop for the V8, etc....but i think there is more to it.
like is said. these are the facts. what you want to conclude from them re: the porsche influence on poor audi is your own choice. i think it is too bad for audi. here we have the A5 and the car will have a tiptronic. riddle me that.
the boxster will likely get DSG before the A5 does. we'll see.<ul><li><a href="http://autonewsguide.com/news/911-Refresh-Porsche-adds-direct-injection-and-DSG-for-2008/">DSG and FSI to 911</a></li></ul>
04-13-2007, 05:24 AM
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cutting and pasting is all fine and dandy
but in the business world i do not think people would see piesch's style and motivations as a patriarch who wants to reunite his car family.
where was he and the porsche family when audi was in the craphole back in the 80's? how and why does he show up on his white horse to reconcile audi into the porsche "family" just when audi is on a roll and producing a car that is superior to the 911?
again, there are many opinions on the matter. makes for good conversation in person- but difficult on a forum
but that is how i feel about things anyway.
where was he and the porsche family when audi was in the craphole back in the 80's? how and why does he show up on his white horse to reconcile audi into the porsche "family" just when audi is on a roll and producing a car that is superior to the 911?
again, there are many opinions on the matter. makes for good conversation in person- but difficult on a forum
but that is how i feel about things anyway.