MB Quart door speaker adapters are overrated in this forum...
08-12-2001, 08:15 AM
#1
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MB Quart door speaker adapters are overrated in this forum...
I have Polk 4's in my front doors and 6 1/2's in the back deck. With a 10 in. sub in the trunk, all i really need the Polks for is mid- to high-range sound and accurate response. The 4's in front are more than adequate for this job, and they sound great! Why pay more money for adapters AND for installation??
P.S. Admittedly, I may consider getting these MB Quart adapters if I didn't have a sub in the trunk and was relying on the door speakers for low-end sound, too.
P.S. Admittedly, I may consider getting these MB Quart adapters if I didn't have a sub in the trunk and was relying on the door speakers for low-end sound, too.
08-12-2001, 11:09 AM
#3
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4" and 10" do not produce any of the same frequencies (accurately) so having
one or the other has no effect on your decision for the other.
The adapter rings cost $30, and I can't imagine a shop charging you more to put them in. To be able to put in 5.25s by spending $30 is a great deal. Look at what it costs to go from 5.25 to 6.5 (custom kickpanels $300-$500).
If you are only listening to music when your car is stopped and the windows are closed, then maybe a 4" will seem adequate. Get on the highway with the windows open and turn up the volume so you can hear it and you'll be overdriving that 4"
The adapter rings cost $30, and I can't imagine a shop charging you more to put them in. To be able to put in 5.25s by spending $30 is a great deal. Look at what it costs to go from 5.25 to 6.5 (custom kickpanels $300-$500).
If you are only listening to music when your car is stopped and the windows are closed, then maybe a 4" will seem adequate. Get on the highway with the windows open and turn up the volume so you can hear it and you'll be overdriving that 4"
08-12-2001, 07:23 PM
#4
I've had Polk 4" before and found them to be completely inadequate...
...they had virtually no ability to reproduce midbass and lower midrange frequencies, especially at volume. I've also had Canton 4" speakers, and they had better midbass than the Polk's (and cleaner sounding high end too), but they were still not ideal. I've heard (and purchased but not installed) Image Dynamics 5.25" speakers for my S4 now, and they sound fuller than either of those 4" speakers did.
08-13-2001, 03:49 PM
#6
AudiWorld Super User
I agree, too many people overlook the midbass frequencies...
Bass, midrange, and highs that play loud are easy. But many high-end systems I've heard either don't enough midbass, or are using their sub to fill in that range which can tend to sound muddy and slow.
I'm using a 5" up front, but I consider it's midbass performance acceptable, but not outstanding. Like DRoss says, a 6" or 7" would be ideal, except I don't want to go cutting up my doors to fit larger drivers.
To make up for the deficit in lower midbass, I've got a pair of 6.5" in the stock sub location (in the deck) running from about 80-150 Hz. My sub didn't sound that great running it much higher than 80-90 Hz -- needed a much quicker driver.
I'm using a 5" up front, but I consider it's midbass performance acceptable, but not outstanding. Like DRoss says, a 6" or 7" would be ideal, except I don't want to go cutting up my doors to fit larger drivers.
To make up for the deficit in lower midbass, I've got a pair of 6.5" in the stock sub location (in the deck) running from about 80-150 Hz. My sub didn't sound that great running it much higher than 80-90 Hz -- needed a much quicker driver.
08-14-2001, 06:54 AM
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To an extent I agree with you...
The 4" driver isnt going to be of much use below 200-250Hz because the excursions required to produce anything above 100db are beyond the envelope of most of the 4" driver packages.
The 100-250Hz range is very important and while it would ne nice to have that driver up front, it would also be nice to have everything arranged just below eye level as a single point source. That just isnt going to happen with current driver technology in a car, and the displacement between many midrange and tweeters is a bigger issue than displacement of midbass to midrange so living with a displaced (to the rear) midbass and subwoofer isnt all that big a deal.
As it happens drivers in the 6-8" range make very good midbass drivers and the A4 sedan has a set in the rear package tray (or whatever they call that thing under the rear window). The fact that they are behind you can be audible, primarily because of higher frequencies (>200HZ) also reproduced so one either has to use a very steep crossover or use the higher frequencies reproduced as ambient fill (lower relative levels to both the front and to the midbass).
What is left in the spectrum to deal with is the bottom end (below 100Hz). 6-8" drivers will try to do bottom end but again physics is against them as they have to move a lot (unless you gang a whole bunch of them in a single large baffle) and that creates problems like doppler distortion in the range they are well suited to. Larger drivers (10-15"), in properly damped enclosure configurations with a suitably steep cutoff does the job nicely in a car. Usually when one of these is observed to sound "slow" it is either from underdamping of the driver or allowing it to produce frequencies well above its optimal range.
The real challenge comes with trying to integrate all these drivers. Almost as a cruel joke physics has us arrange the drivers almost the opposite what is optimum for delay responses once crossovers are added in. If one were to time align a 4 way system with analog crossovers, the subwoofer would be placed physically closest and the tweeter furthest away from our ears. Since this isnt really practical in a car, one needs to tweek the crossovers themselves so they interact with each other most favorably (least lumpyness)where the typical setup is tweeter closest and subwoofer furthest away.
The best technical solution for the whole system if you cant use one driver is to employ a digital domain filter scheme with variable delays so the band for each driver can be properly time aligned and driver overlap minimized.
Without getting too fancy I have been able to use the rear drivers to fill in for the missing midbass of the front drivers using the undocumented eq capability of the stock head unit. I also added a subwoofer to fill in the bottom end. The result is a pretty flat amplitude response and fairly linear (low distortion) sound at car required levels because I am not asking any drivers (or undersized amps)to do unnatural things.
The 100-250Hz range is very important and while it would ne nice to have that driver up front, it would also be nice to have everything arranged just below eye level as a single point source. That just isnt going to happen with current driver technology in a car, and the displacement between many midrange and tweeters is a bigger issue than displacement of midbass to midrange so living with a displaced (to the rear) midbass and subwoofer isnt all that big a deal.
As it happens drivers in the 6-8" range make very good midbass drivers and the A4 sedan has a set in the rear package tray (or whatever they call that thing under the rear window). The fact that they are behind you can be audible, primarily because of higher frequencies (>200HZ) also reproduced so one either has to use a very steep crossover or use the higher frequencies reproduced as ambient fill (lower relative levels to both the front and to the midbass).
What is left in the spectrum to deal with is the bottom end (below 100Hz). 6-8" drivers will try to do bottom end but again physics is against them as they have to move a lot (unless you gang a whole bunch of them in a single large baffle) and that creates problems like doppler distortion in the range they are well suited to. Larger drivers (10-15"), in properly damped enclosure configurations with a suitably steep cutoff does the job nicely in a car. Usually when one of these is observed to sound "slow" it is either from underdamping of the driver or allowing it to produce frequencies well above its optimal range.
The real challenge comes with trying to integrate all these drivers. Almost as a cruel joke physics has us arrange the drivers almost the opposite what is optimum for delay responses once crossovers are added in. If one were to time align a 4 way system with analog crossovers, the subwoofer would be placed physically closest and the tweeter furthest away from our ears. Since this isnt really practical in a car, one needs to tweek the crossovers themselves so they interact with each other most favorably (least lumpyness)where the typical setup is tweeter closest and subwoofer furthest away.
The best technical solution for the whole system if you cant use one driver is to employ a digital domain filter scheme with variable delays so the band for each driver can be properly time aligned and driver overlap minimized.
Without getting too fancy I have been able to use the rear drivers to fill in for the missing midbass of the front drivers using the undocumented eq capability of the stock head unit. I also added a subwoofer to fill in the bottom end. The result is a pretty flat amplitude response and fairly linear (low distortion) sound at car required levels because I am not asking any drivers (or undersized amps)to do unnatural things.
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08-15-2001, 09:28 AM
#10
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Lots of reasons. First, I installed it (ridiculously easy), so that was free. 2nd, they're cheap.
And third, if you're satisfied with 4" speakers up front, then you're probably not much of an audiophile. Even the 5 1/4" speakers need WAY more midbass to pull the image up front.
What the A4 really needs is QForms or some other panel company to make a door panel or kick panel that houses a 6.5" or even a three way system with an 8", a 4" and a tweet.
What the A4 really needs is QForms or some other panel company to make a door panel or kick panel that houses a 6.5" or even a three way system with an 8", a 4" and a tweet.