dissident

Looking to upgrade my sound system from the non bose standard concert setup in my '99 A4 2.4Q. I plan to replace front and rear speakers, HU and add a sub. I am after good sound quality but am on a tight budget so basically looking for as much bang for my buck as possible. It seems that replacing the 2 front speakers is a good place to start for someone with basically no experience in car audio, and can't afford to buy everything at once, but do I need to purchase an amp before this?

If so, given the above setup, should I purchase a 5 channel amp? or a 4 channel and 1 channel amp for the sub? or two 2 channel amps and a third for the sub? What other specifications do I need to be aware of? What are good brands?

Also what brands for speakers would you reccomend for good sound quality that aren't ridiculously expensive?

Thanks for bearing with my basic questions. Also if anyone can point me in the direction of any good sites that contains this kinda basic info that'd help a lot.

Jarrod

First define "Not expensive"

I'd go with a 4 channel and a mono amp for the sub. As for speaks, I'd have to say you should go with components up front and coax's in the rear, if you want rear fill. But if you are trying to stay really cheap do coaxials all the way around.

Good brands not super expensive:

HU:
Pioneer, Clarion, Kenwood, JVC, Panasonic, RF

Amps:
Autotek, DEI, Hifonics, JBL, JL, Kicker, MTX, Orion, Planet Audio, PG, PPI, RF

Speaks:
alpine, cdt, DEI, Diamond, eclipse, some focal, infinity, jbl, jl, kicker, mbquart, pioneer, rf

I would try to do one thing and learn about it before going on to another step. Start with a HU, replace speaks, amp them, add sub and amp.

As for choosing amps to match up with speaks, you'll want to look at the rms rating of the speaker and compare it to rms output of the amp. Match up ohm loads (which can be tricky) and wire it up. Get a HU that you like, not what a salesperson likes, with at least 2 preouts.

dissident

First of all, thanks very much for the reply.

Due to budget and my lack of knowledge I am planning to replace one part at a time. I thought front speakers would be a good place to start as it seems they might be a bit more straightforward to install. Have I been misled?

Is it worth installing new front speakers by themselves or do I really need to put in a new amp first or at the same time?

As for budget I guess all up I'm hoping to not spend more than $1000-$1500

Thanks for any help.

EDIT: sorry what do you mean by rear fill exactly?

Jarrod

Ok. You will get much better sound running speakers off of an amp, but if you want to run them off just the HU's power at first that would be OK. But you have to be careful with that too. If you want to crank up your music, you could damage your speakers by making them try to move more than the power they are receiving will allow.

Reason I say HU first (but you could very well replace just your speaks first too) is because it is the cornerstone of a system (usually). It will give you all the nice features you may need in the future and it will provide much more power. The power output of an aftermarket HU will be much higher than a stock HU (even if it is something around 20 watt rms per channel) which will be better if you want to power speaks directly off the HU without an amp.

You might be suprised but you can get a pretty nice system for 1-1.5k.

Rear fill is just what it says. Some people dislike having rear speaks in their ride. Me for example. I prefer the sound of a strong front stage with no rear fill. Competition wise this is ideal for max SQ. But there are some who thinks no rear fill sounds bad. And that's fine too. It is all up to personal taste. If you want rear fill, by all means upgrade and amp those speaks, you'll be happy you did. Neither one is "best".

dissident

ok so if I start with buying a HU, what do I need to look for? I don't really care for flashy animations and stupid gizmos and folding out displays. What I would like is a cd player which will give me good sound quality, and is reliable, and looks decent ie fits in well with my car.

Let me see if I have this right:
- pre-outs are used to connect to amps/speakers, so I would want at least four, preferably six (2 for 4 channel amp and 2 for sub amp). Is this right or am I way off?

- A higher rms output will allow me to run my new front component speakers better if I choose to put them in before I buy the 4 channel amp.

- an aux input is nice for a phatbox down the line

- I read something about voltage output, higher is better? don't really understand the significance of this

Thanks again for all the help

Jarrod

Most CD players are fairly reliable these days, just try and stay away from Sony and their Aiwa brand. If you go used stay away from Eskips. The new ones are nice, but old ones suck. You'll want a single DIN unit. Check out crutchfield.com for a list of cd players and they have an info center; check out the cd receivers part.

You are partially right about the pre-outs. But pre-outs are usually (almost all the time) listed as pairs. So most cd players will say something like, 2 sets of pre-outs. You'll want either 2 or 3 sets(pairs) of pre-outs.

A higher rms output will aid in powering those aftermarket speaks, but don't worry about it when shopping for HU's. They all put out about the same power which is still way more than stock.

I don't know how the phatbox works (I know what it is) so I don't know if an auxiliary input would work for connecting it. But a lot of newer HU's today will read MP3 encoded CD's. So you may not be able to store 1000 songs, you can burn 100 onto a CD and play it in your CD player.

Pre-out voltage can be important. The higher the voltage the lower you can set the gains on your amp . . . which leads to lower distortion . . . which leads to longer speaker life and better SQ.

Generally look for a voltage of 4 or better. Most start at 2v (some at 1-1.5).<ul><li><a href="http://www.crutchfield.com">http://www.crutchfield.com</a</li></ul>

dissident

Problem is I am from Australia and when I said $1000-$1500 I meant aussie dollars, I think thats probably roughly equivalent to $750US, which means I am on much more of a budget. Sorry, should have mentioned that.

From what I've been reading rear speakers have the least impact, especially if you're not big on 'rear fill' (thanks for explaining that). So what I was thinking of doing was buying a HU, then next purchase a 4 channel amp and good front speakers, and lastly a sub, and just keeping the stock rear speakers.

So if I have this right, I would need a HU with 2 preouts, one set for the rear speakers which would run off the HU power, and the second preout going to the 4 channel amp (with an inbuilt crossover to split the low frequency for the sub)powering the front speakers and sub. Ok does this setup sound good? ie would it 1) work and 2) sound good?

I'm not sure if this is practical but I like the idea of it because it allows me to spend about $400Aus on each part (HU, amp, fronts, sub) which should mean better sound quality. Also if I wanted to down the track, I could purchase a mono amp to power the sub and buy new rear speakers and power them through the 4 channel amp. One thing I'm not sure of is if running the sub through a 4 channel amp is a good idea, both money and soundwise. Would it be better (sound and money) perhaps to buy a 2 channel amp for the fronts and a mono amp for the sub which I read provided better bass and were usually cheaper?

Really appreciate you putting up with my ramblings, but I am learning a lot.

Jarrod

Here's my take on this. With that budget you still have some options, but I also realize your stuff probably costs more too. I would not do a thing with the rear speakers. Leave them stock and run them off of your new HU.

That way you can still have rear fill and then you can just look for a nice 2 channel amp (which should be much cheaper than a same branded 4 channel). You would still get the great front imaging because your front speakers would be upgraded and getting all the power from an amp, while the rears will just compliment (as long as you want rear fill) the fronts.

This way you could just look for a HU with 2 sets of preouts and it will be much easier to install and deal with.

If you are still wanting the whole 4 channel amp thing, it is best to go with an amp with 3 preouts. 2 sets will plug into that 4 channel still allowing your to fade front to rear. But still it is much cheaper (much, much, much cheaper) to go 2 channel and don't touch the rear speaks all together.

I would NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT power stock speakers off of an external amp. Stock speaks were just not made to handle that type of power. Plus they are just cheap paper (think newspaper; exageration yes, but shows my point) and will blow with that type of power. Another thing you may want to look into is seeing if you can get a HU with built in crossovers. But this isn't as important as you can always deal with that later, in different ways.

My system is kinda like what I'm describing to you. (Yes, mine's a little more on the expensive side, but all in all I've spent around 2g's when it is all said in done for really nice components.) I don't have any rear fill; I like the whole front stage only thing. But I have a 2 channel to the front components and a 2 channel amp to my subs. You can power a sub with either a 2 channel or mono amp, but that's not really important now. I have 6.5v preouts on my deck, quite more than most will need, and 3 sets of preouts total. Although I am using (or will use) only 2 out of the 3. Front, rear and sub out. Rear just isn't used.

I don't know anything about your car (if it is different from our versions), but there are a couple things to keep in mind. You will need to get a mounting bracket to fit a single din HU. They aren't very expensive and are easy to work with so don't worry about that. You will probably need an antenna adapter to fit your existing one to your new HU, also not a very expensive part. Third, your rear speakers may already be amped from the factory. There are ways to deal with this because you can't just plug the stock amp into an aftermarket HU. But that again isn't very expensive. Just little things you should know before getting started.

Any more concerns and questions? If yes, just keep 'em coming :-)

Jarrod

Also your stock speakers up front should be 4 inch. Get 5 1/4" replacements, not 4 inch. You will need to make a custom bracket (or get a MB Quart one). Honestly you could probably make one your self for less than $10 out of MDF if you can use a router or jigsaw or sawsall or whatever you may have/call it.

And you can always get cheap coaxial speakers for the rear later. Also make sure the HU you get has an internal amp. I'm guessing you're not going super expensive (my great intellect figured that one out, lol) and most HU's without an amp are on the expensive side (why are they more expensive? think more room for stuff like crossovers, processors, etc). So that shouldn't be much of an issue, but something to have in the back of your mind.

dissident

You shouldn't have said that =), but since you did...

Ok I'm just curious what the advantages are of getting a HU with inbuilt crossovers, as opposed to them built in in the two amps? cheaper perhaps?

second thing was voltage on the preouts. You said I should go for at least 4volts, but I'm not sure if this will be achievable on my budget. I read that higher voltages "allows for better noise immunity and gives you a higher headroom for amplifier gain settings" but I don't get what higher headroom for amplifier gains means. Maybe you could explain this? so I can decide if I should fork out the extra cash for the high V preouts.

Thanks again,
Nick