learned a nice technique today at the track - helps counter the push
11-09-2003, 03:20 PM
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,715
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
learned a nice technique today at the track - helps counter the push
for all you track experts, i'm sure you all ready know this, so this is for those of you that have at least a couple of days under your belt - absolutely do not try this on your first few days - it could go very badly
I was at Mosport this weekend (2 days used 5 tanks of gas) just outside of Toronto. Very fast dangerous track with lots of walls - once again beginners do not do this. Our car is heavy and has poor weight distribution - I'm running AWE's KO4 setup with headers, RS4 ICs, Stoptechs and Kumho V700 R compounds. As track beginners we are taught to first hit the breaks, then turn in and then lightly on the gas throughout the turn. What I found worked much better in order to counter the "push" of our cars was to:
1) hit the breaks
2) just a 1/4 second before you have finished your breaking and the momentum of the car's mass is still on your front wheels (better grip on the front) begin your turn in - even better is to (lets talk about a right hand turn here) make a "tiny" turn of the steering wheel in the opposite direction "tiny" - this transfers mass to the outside front left wheel - and then begin the turn-in a 1/4 second before you have finished breaking
3) the result is an unbelievable difference - the car will feel much more neutral
4) this is something every track expert and rally driver knows
5) what it does is it gets the back end out a "tiny" bit at the beginning and it changes the angle of attack in the corner - a perfect offset for a front heavy car
6) it actually encourages even later breaking - breaking that is used to set the car's angle
7) after a few laps of practice, i dropped 2 seconds per lap
For the experts out there, sorry for the waste of time, for the first timers - this is very, very dangerous because it puts you on the edge of over steer - so don't do it.
The S4 was easily the fastest car out there - thanks to AWE, Achtuning and Stoptech - we had lots of fun, it was quiet so i got tonnes of track time. Special thanks to the young man who autocrosses his miata for the advice after driving a few laps with me. For those that know the track, the cold weather was great for the turbos - I was able to hit 235 down the back stretch - nailing this technique helped in every corner but it finally helped me to nail 5B and to exit with max speed.
I was at Mosport this weekend (2 days used 5 tanks of gas) just outside of Toronto. Very fast dangerous track with lots of walls - once again beginners do not do this. Our car is heavy and has poor weight distribution - I'm running AWE's KO4 setup with headers, RS4 ICs, Stoptechs and Kumho V700 R compounds. As track beginners we are taught to first hit the breaks, then turn in and then lightly on the gas throughout the turn. What I found worked much better in order to counter the "push" of our cars was to:
1) hit the breaks
2) just a 1/4 second before you have finished your breaking and the momentum of the car's mass is still on your front wheels (better grip on the front) begin your turn in - even better is to (lets talk about a right hand turn here) make a "tiny" turn of the steering wheel in the opposite direction "tiny" - this transfers mass to the outside front left wheel - and then begin the turn-in a 1/4 second before you have finished breaking
3) the result is an unbelievable difference - the car will feel much more neutral
4) this is something every track expert and rally driver knows
5) what it does is it gets the back end out a "tiny" bit at the beginning and it changes the angle of attack in the corner - a perfect offset for a front heavy car
6) it actually encourages even later breaking - breaking that is used to set the car's angle
7) after a few laps of practice, i dropped 2 seconds per lap
For the experts out there, sorry for the waste of time, for the first timers - this is very, very dangerous because it puts you on the edge of over steer - so don't do it.
The S4 was easily the fastest car out there - thanks to AWE, Achtuning and Stoptech - we had lots of fun, it was quiet so i got tonnes of track time. Special thanks to the young man who autocrosses his miata for the advice after driving a few laps with me. For those that know the track, the cold weather was great for the turbos - I was able to hit 235 down the back stretch - nailing this technique helped in every corner but it finally helped me to nail 5B and to exit with max speed.
11-09-2003, 04:39 PM
#4
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,715
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I paid $350 and had the track to myself for 2 days
Unbelievable amount of private time on the track.
Saturday had 20 or so cars, Sunday maybe 16. Lots or first timers so they were never there.
I went through 5 tanks of gas for the two days.
Saturday had 20 or so cars, Sunday maybe 16. Lots or first timers so they were never there.
I went through 5 tanks of gas for the two days.
11-10-2003, 04:29 AM
#5
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,903
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
you describe two techniques. the first is trail braking the second is a pendulum turn AKA
the Scandinavian Flik. You were right to warn people to be careful.
WRC cars do that on almost every turn. On loose surface you can scrub speed faster sideways than forward and if you are already pointed at the apex before you get anywhere near the corner all the better
WRC cars do that on almost every turn. On loose surface you can scrub speed faster sideways than forward and if you are already pointed at the apex before you get anywhere near the corner all the better
Trending Topics
11-10-2003, 11:31 AM
#8
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,715
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
not that i disagree, but i would guess that you are a better driver than you once were
The suspension doesn't change physics, the s4, unless it has been radically gutted with weight redistributed, is still a front heavy car and will push unless it is driven by a driver that knows how to counter-act physics. The suspension and tire setup can reduce the "push", but my guess is that you are a good driver that is applying the very thing I just learned. By consistently applying this, my S4 no longer pushes either - it feels very neutral.
My suspension setup is kw v2s with a 22mm rear sway bar set to firm - way better than stock but the weight distribution is still front heavy.
My suspension setup is kw v2s with a 22mm rear sway bar set to firm - way better than stock but the weight distribution is still front heavy.
11-10-2003, 11:41 AM
#9
Elder Member
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 17,768
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You'd be surprised at what a good suspension can do to a car.
My car stock, is non-sport, so I dont even have sway bars and such. it used to understeer like crazy. I went from 225 tires to 255 tires to help the grip, but didnt help much. then I got myself a real race suspension, and HOLY CR@P. the car is great now. I just point and shoot like I do in the race civic.
I went from ~350lb H&R race to Stasis 900lb springs in the rear.
Even in an S4, you can set it up to be neutral I'm sure. probably would take 1200lb springs in the rear but hey, whatever it takes
thanks for the compliment, but unfortunately good driving cant reduce understeer in any car.
Come out to shannonville next year and I'll give you a ride, you'll be a believer
regards,
Liam
I went from ~350lb H&R race to Stasis 900lb springs in the rear.
Even in an S4, you can set it up to be neutral I'm sure. probably would take 1200lb springs in the rear but hey, whatever it takes
thanks for the compliment, but unfortunately good driving cant reduce understeer in any car.
Come out to shannonville next year and I'll give you a ride, you'll be a believer
regards,
Liam
