Audi Vs. BMW Vs. Mercedes-Benz
12-16-2003, 06:16 AM
#11
AudiWorld Super User
Wrong. Past perf. is not always a predictor of future...
If Chevy introduced a $80K sports car, do you think its dep. will be the same as the Corvette or Malibu?
Remember, i'm not Tibby, therefore you don't have to fight me on every post.
Remember, i'm not Tibby, therefore you don't have to fight me on every post.
12-16-2003, 07:24 AM
#12
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That analogy doenst work. I'm not fighting you, I am just presenting an alternative line of thought
don't get so touchy just because someone voices alternative opinions. I'm not trying to disban your cult or knock you off your AW throne ;-)
But back to the adult conversation.....
VW has always had good resale, so even if they make a not so hot model, it will still have better resale than say if GM had produced the same model. Plus the hot deal on the Phaeton is the lease anyways.
As for your dependability argument, yes I think an $80k sports car from chevy would be just as liable if not more so to break than a malibu. One is a mass produced car that they have most of the bugs worked out on, the other is a limited production machine. With a much smaller engineering/support team.
Just look at the Z06.......$60k and it still has the same probs as the regular Vette or Camaro for that matter.
Again, while we are reading car and driver, and european car and the occasional issue of jugs, someone at VWOA has been doing their homework- chances are they know more about this than we do.
But back to the adult conversation.....
VW has always had good resale, so even if they make a not so hot model, it will still have better resale than say if GM had produced the same model. Plus the hot deal on the Phaeton is the lease anyways.
As for your dependability argument, yes I think an $80k sports car from chevy would be just as liable if not more so to break than a malibu. One is a mass produced car that they have most of the bugs worked out on, the other is a limited production machine. With a much smaller engineering/support team.
Just look at the Z06.......$60k and it still has the same probs as the regular Vette or Camaro for that matter.
Again, while we are reading car and driver, and european car and the occasional issue of jugs, someone at VWOA has been doing their homework- chances are they know more about this than we do.
12-16-2003, 08:16 AM
#13
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Yeah, just like someone at VAG did their homework on the Cayenne. I have to agree with .........
Christian on the Phaeton. I don't care how nice the car is, why would anyone want to buy an $80K VW? And if I'm spending that kind of $$$ I want a much better dealer experience than you get at VW dealers.
12-16-2003, 08:19 AM
#14
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Uh....Cayenne =Porsche.....Touareg = VW + #1 SUV of the year.
Wow....get in line and drink your grape kool aid.
But you bring out a good point about the dealers. I have been lucky with mine, but the dealerships will make or break the whole product image. I do know that all the Phaeton dealers have the new real time diagnostics hook up with Germany (dont remember the name of the system).
But you bring out a good point about the dealers. I have been lucky with mine, but the dealerships will make or break the whole product image. I do know that all the Phaeton dealers have the new real time diagnostics hook up with Germany (dont remember the name of the system).
12-16-2003, 08:38 AM
#15
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Uh, that #1 doesn't mean crap, go back and look at the #1 SUVs over the last 10 years, there are
some real stinkers in the bunch. And I like grape kool aid, as long as it's Audi branded. Anyway, if I didn't hate SUVs so much i'd say the Touareg was a nice vehicle. But 85% of the people who drive SUVs should be driving a more efficient vehicle for what they actually use them for. Plus, I can't see around the fvcking things! I'm really tempted by the R32 though, gonna drive one when they finally come in.
12-16-2003, 09:04 AM
#17
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I think the Phaeton is a mistake
VAG is creating a scenario where there is too much overlap with the brands. I doubt you will see Toyota roll out a $60k-$70k car to compete with the Lexus LS450. Most VW owners grduate up market to Audi if they want a "premium" brand. I feel the Phaeton will hurt both Audi and VW sales.. Why buy the A8 it's an overdone VW.. Why spend $70k on a VW?? It is a catch 22. Every other brand with a luxury/premium arm maintains a fair amount of seperation with their lines but VAG is blurring the line more and more. Toyota doesnt do it, Nissan doesnt do it and Honda doesnt do it. I cant think of another major car manufacturer that has a premium arm with flagship models so closely related. Nissan Maxima vs Infinit Q45, Honda Accord vs Acura 3.5Rl, Toyota Avalon vs Lexus LS 450... Audi A8 vs VW Phaeton.. way too similar to the casual observer imo.
12-16-2003, 09:11 AM
#19
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Perschtrieder or whatever his name is said this....
Audi, and Skoda are to become the motorsports brands, and VW is to be the Luxury brand. I dont get it either, but he is the CEO of VW not me.
I think we will see Audi and VW have much clearer seperations in the future. They have already anounced an end to platform sharing so that is a good start. I think the next Audis will be a more potent in the power arena to further seperate them from their VW cousins.
I think we will see Audi and VW have much clearer seperations in the future. They have already anounced an end to platform sharing so that is a good start. I think the next Audis will be a more potent in the power arena to further seperate them from their VW cousins.
12-16-2003, 09:18 AM
#20
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CEO's get $hit-canned all the time..
He is crazy if he thinks VW will ever be viewed as a true luxury brand in the US. Hell, Audi is still the red-headed step child compared to MB and BMW. This market is so brand conscious.. People that buy luxury cars buy luxury items and are very image conscious. Gucci, Louis Vuiton,Rolex, Dior name brand this, name brand that. I know the Phaeton is awesome, but the pretentious owners that inhabit the luxury car segment won't buy into it. This car is for another demographic all together.