Update: Megasquirted 10V is still smoking
01-31-2005, 02:39 PM
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Update: Megasquirted 10V is still smoking
well, I had the breather setup wrong, but it has been corrected. It did seem to stop some of the smoking, but it still smokes a lot sometimes...sometimes it's not much at all, if any. Weird
So problems are two fold:
1) Car still smokes and i don't know why. I think I'm going to change the oil again...I'm pretty sure that it's oil being burned that's causing the smoking. It sure smells like oil at least.
I'm not convinced that the breather setup is fixed. when I pull the dipstick nothing happens and when I pull the oil cap off nothing happens. I though something was supposed to happen....
2) when I give it gas at idle or anywhere the engine light comes on and then it almost stalls. if I ease into the throttle it doesn't do this...
My breather setup is as follows for clarification: Breather hose is a 1" heater hose (maybe bigger) that runs up from the crankcase and then it tappers into a 1/2" hose that goes to the valve cover nozzle. These hoses also T into another 1/2" hose that runs directly into the nose of my cone airfilter.
So problems are two fold:
1) Car still smokes and i don't know why. I think I'm going to change the oil again...I'm pretty sure that it's oil being burned that's causing the smoking. It sure smells like oil at least.
I'm not convinced that the breather setup is fixed. when I pull the dipstick nothing happens and when I pull the oil cap off nothing happens. I though something was supposed to happen....
2) when I give it gas at idle or anywhere the engine light comes on and then it almost stalls. if I ease into the throttle it doesn't do this...
My breather setup is as follows for clarification: Breather hose is a 1" heater hose (maybe bigger) that runs up from the crankcase and then it tappers into a 1/2" hose that goes to the valve cover nozzle. These hoses also T into another 1/2" hose that runs directly into the nose of my cone airfilter.
01-31-2005, 05:48 PM
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A few things.
Don't expect much to happen if you take the oil cap off when the car is idling if the car isn't CIS anymore, after all the cam cover vent goes to atmospheric pressure so the air under the cam cover should be null pressure. Same thing with the oil dipstick. The crankvent assures the bottom is not pressurized. The car isn't CIS anymore so the fuel delivery isn't tied to the vacuum system via an airplate.
Your breather sounds right with one thing..Alot of oil usually flows out of the cam cover, espeically if the nipple turns down at the back. If its spewing oil out then you're possibly feeding that oil back into the intake which is why your getting that smoke. Your breather line needs to go up kinda like a pee-trap for a dishwasher so that the oil can flow back down the 1" line and drain into the oil pan. So from the crankcase it goes up to the back of the cam cover and then it should go up a bit more to prevent backflow of oil. That way only the oily air gets recirculated, not actual oil.
Number 2. The choking and poor throttle response when you blip the throttle. That is a tuning issue. 034 has something called acceleration enrichment. MS should be similar
Your breather sounds right with one thing..Alot of oil usually flows out of the cam cover, espeically if the nipple turns down at the back. If its spewing oil out then you're possibly feeding that oil back into the intake which is why your getting that smoke. Your breather line needs to go up kinda like a pee-trap for a dishwasher so that the oil can flow back down the 1" line and drain into the oil pan. So from the crankcase it goes up to the back of the cam cover and then it should go up a bit more to prevent backflow of oil. That way only the oily air gets recirculated, not actual oil.
Number 2. The choking and poor throttle response when you blip the throttle. That is a tuning issue. 034 has something called acceleration enrichment. MS should be similar
02-01-2005, 02:49 AM
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thanks, I'll work on that today! maybe I'll T into the breather line closer to the crankcase..
instead of the Valve cover in order to get that lift, but still something is telling me that's not the problem, but I hope you're right!
Looks like I'm going to need that TPS after all to work on the accelerator enrichment, eh? Still, lots of folks have gone without it...I must have some settings a little off. Anybody with Megasquirt feel free to post your VE tables etc so that I may compare.
Looks like I'm going to need that TPS after all to work on the accelerator enrichment, eh? Still, lots of folks have gone without it...I must have some settings a little off. Anybody with Megasquirt feel free to post your VE tables etc so that I may compare.
02-01-2005, 05:29 AM
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Yes
I agree that you might have another problem besides the breather, and I don't really know if the breather is wrong at this point. Just speculation. If your on MAP, you can just unhook it from the air intake and run it into a big container. Let the car idle and see if you have oil coming out of the breather line. Usually the oil spewing happens when you running the car hard with alot of revs. So, I don't think thats your problem either.
If you're on MAP(which you should be) you can disconnect the turbo from the throttle body. See if there is oil coming from the turbo and leaking into the intake side. Also look for oil in the intake.
You can also pull sparkplugs and look for signs of oil fouling. This might be useful to determine if the leak is pre-combustion, during combustion or post combustion(such as turbo oil leaking into the hotside).
How old is your turbo and what kind is it?
I think you should also do a leakdown test on the block. I'm a bit concerned about the cylinder that was full of gas and how that could have washed the walls of oil.
One other thing..Rebuilt engines will smoke for up to 30 minutes depending upon how much pre-oil you shot into the cylinders. Since your on EFI, your tuning might be off too. So always check your sparkplugs for fouling. Once you get a misfire, its easy to start jumping to false conclusions. Hook up an inductive pickup timing light to each cylinder as the car idles and verify you are getting spark at each cylinder.
My engine was spewing all kinds of foul stuff for awhile until the tuning got close to stoic and all misfires were taken care of. The oil was changed a few times as well, and we were manually priming the cylinders with oil to make sure we weren't dry cranking it. All that equals alot of smoke (blue and black)
If you're on MAP(which you should be) you can disconnect the turbo from the throttle body. See if there is oil coming from the turbo and leaking into the intake side. Also look for oil in the intake.
You can also pull sparkplugs and look for signs of oil fouling. This might be useful to determine if the leak is pre-combustion, during combustion or post combustion(such as turbo oil leaking into the hotside).
How old is your turbo and what kind is it?
I think you should also do a leakdown test on the block. I'm a bit concerned about the cylinder that was full of gas and how that could have washed the walls of oil.
One other thing..Rebuilt engines will smoke for up to 30 minutes depending upon how much pre-oil you shot into the cylinders. Since your on EFI, your tuning might be off too. So always check your sparkplugs for fouling. Once you get a misfire, its easy to start jumping to false conclusions. Hook up an inductive pickup timing light to each cylinder as the car idles and verify you are getting spark at each cylinder.
My engine was spewing all kinds of foul stuff for awhile until the tuning got close to stoic and all misfires were taken care of. The oil was changed a few times as well, and we were manually priming the cylinders with oil to make sure we weren't dry cranking it. All that equals alot of smoke (blue and black)
02-01-2005, 02:44 PM
#6
Re: Yes
hey jon...gimme a call tonight if you can...preferably after 9pm central.
on these notes though- your crankcase breather setup should be fine. mine's the same and has 35k miles since the MS swap. there is a lot of oil in the intake, but not enough to make any smoke like you're seeing.
The wash down thing is a huge concern...especially since you hydrolocked your engine on fuel.
TPS- still running w/o one, but looking to add one as ice racing with a responsive system sucks. if i'm abrupt with the throttle from idle, it hiccups badly...since there's no accel enrichment. but if i'm light on it, it's just fine once it gets revving. Your left foot dexterity will improve dramatically.......hammering abruptly on the throttle will make things sound nasty though.
it shouldn't stall though as you say yours does. i can get on it fairly quickly and it hiccups but doesn't die. try increasing the VE for your idle blocks (4squares) and see if that helps. Also, there are some WB feedback selections on the constants screen that need to be set according to the number of cylinders/firing order and the degree with which your map is roughed in. like i said, gimme a call.
hth
jeff
on these notes though- your crankcase breather setup should be fine. mine's the same and has 35k miles since the MS swap. there is a lot of oil in the intake, but not enough to make any smoke like you're seeing.
The wash down thing is a huge concern...especially since you hydrolocked your engine on fuel.
TPS- still running w/o one, but looking to add one as ice racing with a responsive system sucks. if i'm abrupt with the throttle from idle, it hiccups badly...since there's no accel enrichment. but if i'm light on it, it's just fine once it gets revving. Your left foot dexterity will improve dramatically.......hammering abruptly on the throttle will make things sound nasty though.
it shouldn't stall though as you say yours does. i can get on it fairly quickly and it hiccups but doesn't die. try increasing the VE for your idle blocks (4squares) and see if that helps. Also, there are some WB feedback selections on the constants screen that need to be set according to the number of cylinders/firing order and the degree with which your map is roughed in. like i said, gimme a call.
hth
jeff
02-01-2005, 05:51 PM
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re: smoking and turbo
so I didn't actually get a chance to do anthing on the car today, but I hope to tomorrow.
turbo is (i believe) original k26 160k miles & 17 years old. I know it's old, but it still works. before EFI conversion there was some oil in the intake tract...but not too much. Just a little pooling in the MM hose.
I did make a few pounds of boost in it yesterday while driving around the block ~6psi worth. was running 12+ in November.
my concerns are now with tuning and the cylinders being washed with fuel. I believe all of the cylinders were full at some point. what do I do about that?? pour some oil into the cylinders and let her crank without fuel or spark for a while?? Or do you think that I've scored the cylinders by now beyond repair. (my stomache is churning just thinking of that)
turbo is (i believe) original k26 160k miles & 17 years old. I know it's old, but it still works. before EFI conversion there was some oil in the intake tract...but not too much. Just a little pooling in the MM hose.
I did make a few pounds of boost in it yesterday while driving around the block ~6psi worth. was running 12+ in November.
my concerns are now with tuning and the cylinders being washed with fuel. I believe all of the cylinders were full at some point. what do I do about that?? pour some oil into the cylinders and let her crank without fuel or spark for a while?? Or do you think that I've scored the cylinders by now beyond repair. (my stomache is churning just thinking of that)
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02-04-2005, 11:24 AM
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okay, so I poured oil down each spark plug whole a couple days ago...
and cranked the car by hand for several minutes. Oil of course shot out of each cylinder for the first few cranks..so at least I know there was enough oil to be touching the cylinder walls. I left it overnight and cranked it again the next morning (yesterday) I cranked it again today before I left this morning.
Hopefully that will have lubed things up enough to prevent any blow-by that might have been causing the smoking. I've also adjusted the breather assembly a bit to hopefully reduce the likelyhood of that being the cause of the smoking.
After I get all (or most) of the oil out of the cylinders I'll try to fire it up. (new plugs are on the way to replace these ones which will inevitably foul)
I'll keep you all posted. tomorrow is going to be 60F here so it'll be a nice day to work outside on the car
Hopefully that will have lubed things up enough to prevent any blow-by that might have been causing the smoking. I've also adjusted the breather assembly a bit to hopefully reduce the likelyhood of that being the cause of the smoking.
After I get all (or most) of the oil out of the cylinders I'll try to fire it up. (new plugs are on the way to replace these ones which will inevitably foul)
I'll keep you all posted. tomorrow is going to be 60F here so it'll be a nice day to work outside on the car
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