David White

as i posted above, the only time i have ever been required to run headlights has been in night time races...this includes plenty of races in the rain, de's in the rain, and even racing in the snow...

many race cars i share the track with do not have headlights (my class rules require that i keep my headlights but they dont have to work)...and we run in low visibility conditions (including heavy rain) without issue...

i can somewhat understand requiring cars going out on track in low light/visibility situations to have headlights turned on, but to require head lights to get through tech inspection is a bit much...if there's no rain, why do people have to have working headlights?

Jretal

that this is just a driver's education program, not a racing school. The cars are suppose to be DOT legal, thus they should have functioning turn signals, brake lights, headlights, and the list goes on. I'm sure this is where the requirements come in. Not agreeing or disagreeing with it, though.

I'd imagine in race conditions, those would be completely different rules than would apply to us non-speed racers since we're out there for recreation with our supposed daily drivers, etc.

Granted, there are ALWAYS acceptions to the rule here, but I'm sure you can see my point.

As for watkins glen, yeah they def make you turn on your headlights during rainy/foggy weather. Moreso for the corner workers than the other drivers. It helps the corner workers see you better, etc etc. Also, WG is a bit of a **** when it comes to running DEs from my experience

BlueDog

Under race conditions all the drivers have similar skill sets and MUCH more attentive to their surroundings on the track than students are.

When I communicated with the authorities in the club about the headlights, they were the ones that told me... <i>"Reason we require headlights is for safety, particularly in conditions including rain, fog, and darkness. VIR in November can have all three of these situations on a given day (i.e. fog in the morning, last run sessions of a day could be in dusk/darkness if it's cloudy, etc). We have required headlights to be turned on at previous events."</i>

KFJ_S4

I understand the premise, but the problem is it's not definitive. I've been out many times where the car in front of me inadvertently hits their turn signal. If turn signals are the passing signal - did they just give me a pass or hit it accidentally? A hand signal tells me the person knows I'm behind them and they are aware that I will pass on the side they point.

As for hazards - there's a hand signal for this too (fist out the window). Again, clear and definitive that the car has an issue and not that they inadvertently hit the hazard switch are are too focused to realize it.

BlueDog

You've put it all very nicely.

Add to that, under race conditions all the cars are fairly equal. However, during a DE you have a wide spectrum of cars.

My little 150HP Porsche will run in the same group as Stage III S4 that easily have 3x the power and acceleration. This is why there are very limited passing zones and the second car MUST wait for the first car to give the pass.

Put all that under a foggy/low visibility condition, make the S4 silver with no lights and he could run up on me in a corner before I even realize there's anyone anywhere near me. This could be a big surprise to us both. If his lights are on, at least I can be prepared and give him plenty of signal time to roll on by.

BlueDog

rest assured there would be a mandatory all hands drivers meeting to announce the change. So this would never happen without people knowing. Unless of course someone thinks they are too good to attend a drivers meeting (which happens quite often).

David White

...and since when do cars have to be DOT legal to do driving schools on race tracks?

trust me, i'm well aware of the differences in DE's and racing, i have done a good amount of both...

David White

...i'm stating that in my experience at VIR, the only time i have seen headlight use required has been at night races...this experience includes a lot of DE experience

BlueDog

but it looks like your lights are on in you sig pic.

I'm not trying to argue one side or the other. I agree.. in racing you hardly see them used, except perhaps professional level like ALMS where they run the lights in the day time.

My point is that what happens under racing conditions/organizations has absolutely no bearing on what things at a DE.

As far as what goes on at other DEs, well, each club has their own rules. For example, at ACNA events there is ABSOLUTELY NO TIMING OF LAPS. If you are caught trying to get lap times you can be asked to pack up and go home. This particular rule is set by the club's insurance company. Taking lap times to them constitutes that the event is "competition" and therefore if anything happens, they would not cover it. However, you go run with PCA and they actually encourage you to get laptimes. Having races for many years myself I know the learning benefit to getting your laptimes, but I have to live without it here or go somewhere that does.

Roger @ CA

Crankcase breathers, my aftermarket DRL's, etc. like testpipes would all make the car not DOT-legal.

Driving school != DOT Legal cars only.