ryan@s4.org(nogaro_s4)

I finally got to put my 1000+ virtual laps on GT2 to the test when I arrived at Laguna to sun and about 58-65 degree track temps (sweet).

The S4 is whole lot faster than my A4 was(or I guess still is). However, and this is where I need your help, do the stock brakes suck this bad?

First of all, I am capable(to some extent) of threshold braking, and I make every effort to lay off the ABS so that I can practice being a better driver, but in just a mere 10 laps of Laguna, my brake fade was so bad, I had to switch braking markers from "1" to "3". After about 14 laps, the rear view mirror would rattle so bad from the rotors that I thought it was going to fall off.

I pulled into the paddock after a session, and I had steam/smoke (not sure which one), eminating from the rotors (I assume it was the pads melting, or the plastic in the wheel well). It wasn't the engine, that much I know. What's up with that?

For perspective, I drove home to Mtn. View, grabbed the car wash kit, headed out and started washing the car. This is 5 (yes FIVE) hours since I had been on the track, and the second the hose hit the rotors, STEAM shoots everywhere. That is just not right (IMO). They should have cooled by then.

Either way, the rotors are severerly warped, and I am reminded each time I apply the brake pedal just how bad the stock setup sucks.

This really bothers me, there is no reason that the stock brakes shouldn't handle a fall track session without warping.

So my question, finally, did other track goers experience the same thing?

So that was 1 point for Laguna, it took my rotors.

The second point for Laguna was my pride, for all day long, I could not figure out turn 9. Try and try I did, and lap after lap, I felt more and more uncomfortable with it. Bummer. One thing is for sure, stay in it, if you're going to fast, just keep on going to fast, 'cause there ain't nothing you can do but hold on if you try to get out of it.

For me, the 1/2 point was some good on-track experience. Laguna is fast, an interesting switch from THill.

I was thinking all along that the first gifts for the S4 would be power, NO WAY, it's coil-overs and brakes (and screw this weak ****, it's 6-pot Alcons the whole way). I will not lose another set of rotors on the track.

There were a couple of laps that I would be entering the braking zone for the Andretti Hairpin (turn 2), and the S4 would feel like a Crown Victoria bouncing and bopping around. That was a little scary, coming over the hill at turn 1 at about 85-90, and dropping down to over 100 is some sick stuff, it makes those braking markers come up real fast. Fun as all hell though.

At any rate, I left with a best time of 2.05.36, and ranged between there are some 2.08.10's. Most of the laps were 2.06 and 2.07's.

I can make up tons of time on turns 4, 5, and 6, I was taking it easy (to much concrete and hills). I guess Sears Point will be interesting.

Car is totally stock.

Any opinions?

Sharon

Laguna Seca is a power & brakes course compared to, say, Sears Point. The stock S4 brakes, IMHO, are just not set up for repeated track braking. The S4 has the HP for that track, but the brakes are not meant to slow down a very heavy car traveling very fast. I MELTED a piston on my stock calipers at Buttonwillow. And it was after that event that I went to the 6 pots...not only do they work amazingly well, but they really do dissipate heat quickly.

FWIW, I've never mastered Turn 9 either...it requires lots of patience (not something I'm known for). People focus a lot on the corkscrew, but Turn 9 was so much more difficult for me. Wait, wait, wait! Damn! Turned in too soon again.

ryan@s4.org(nogaro_s4)

That is the same thing I was thinking. The corkscrew got easier and easier, albeit more and more stomach wrenching, that drop off is pretty severe. The early apex on T9 was a given for me. I just couldn't find a consistent, accurate turn in marker to use. I always found myself lolly-gagging around the track somewhere. Way off to the right, inside on the left...mostly just confused and scared.

The worst part is following those stupid Miata's that can accelerate out of the corkscrew, through 9, into the braking zone for 10.

Talk about screwing me up, try following those guys around the track. They were killing me on the turns. (but I ate 'em alive accelerating out of the turns).

What I loved about Laguna was the real dragon's teeth, I'd only been on tracks with painted burms, but Laguna has the real stuff, and you know it when you hit it.

So how do you know when you have a melted piston?
(aside from un-installing and taking apart the entire brake system). Does it feel like anything?

Thanks again...

Russ Burns

I burned up a set of rotors at Mid Ohio, then went thru the second set at Road America, and Gingerman. What I have learned, is first the cooling sucks. The dust shields block off most of the air flow to the hub of the rotors. This is where the air flow need to go to cool the rotors. Second, I had no feel with the stock brakes. I also could not modulate/ threshold brake worth a damn.
I just recently switched to Alco four pot calipers, and the braking is great. I now feel in control of the brakes. They still run hot, even with the dust shields removed, but I did get thru the Heartland event with out warping the front rotors. My next impovement will be to construct an airduct system to futher cool the brakes.

At the Heartland track event I was braking at about 75% most of the time. I hit one corner fairly hot, after passing a car who forgot to signal till most of the straight was gone. All my instructor would say for the next three corners, was "wow this car has brakes"...

I got my brakes from Vortrag, and am quite happy with the product, and the support. One word of advise, is allow plenty of lead time when you order. They usally custom order the parts, and it can take quite a while to get everything together.

Now I get to fix the rears, I think I might have warped them using the S4 as a Pickup truck.....

Take care
Russ Burns
S4 with brakes.

ryan@s4.org(nogaro_s4)

While enjoying the Speedvision World Challenge Series at Laguna Seca, I stopped by the Champion Audi pits after their race to check out the cars.

I took a picture to post, but the resolution was crap, and it was to dark, but this is what I saw.

First of all, they're running Alcon 6 pots. On the hub, they attached a funnel type plastic device that would direct air (albeit after the intercoolers) on to the rotors.

Imagine this:

Turn your wheel all the way to one direction. On the inside of the hub, above the axel (sp?), a sphere pointing at the intercoolers (about 6" diameter), and it opens to cover most of the top half of the rotors.

I know my description sucks, if I ever get a chance, I'll try to clean up the resolution and I'll post it.

Either way, it's a great idea.

s4wood

BTW, when I borrowed Audiboy's 96 A4 2.8 12V last year I ended up with several 2:04 times..that is the best I could get with only 172 bhp. He had Koni coilovers...and R compound tires though.

ryan@s4.org(nogaro_s4)

R compound is gonna rock.

CP

Scroll down and look at Istook's pictures for the hoses.

CP

Woop, my bad...over on the performance forum.

D.C. Lee

The race cars vent the brakes by directing air from the headlight area--they put a carbon fiber insert in there and run hose down to the collar that sprays cool air over the brakes. This is not possible to replicate for the street (some teams use the turn signal space for their duct, but sill... . Yet without the additional cooling, the S4's brakes will fry because the car is so friggin' heavy. I am hoping somone comes up with a solution, like squished oval ducts that are affixed to the bottom of the front bumper, etc. Without something like this, we're all going to warp rotors--even my expensive Alcons. Calling all engineers...

Lee in D.C.