Sears Point was fun....Corey/Todd/Paul Lambert dicing it up....
12-03-2001, 12:54 PM
#33
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Traffic Was Very Bad . . .
. . . I practically begged Dean to open up the passing zones in the Instructor group on Sunday, but in the end he said no, blaming it on Larry. Still, and just between the hundreds or thousands who read this board and me, towards the end of Sunday, some people pointed me by in non-passing zones because the speed differential was so great. I thought that was very nice of them. I also expected to get black flagged the next time around but never did.
Todd Serota
tserota@tracquest.com
Todd Serota
tserota@tracquest.com
12-03-2001, 01:20 PM
#34
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Yup.
I got pointed by a couple times between 2 and 3, and once between 1 and 2. There was nothing dangerous about those passes, and the other driver was being very courteous. As long as the other driver was aware (and he was cause he pointed!!), I don't see much of an issue.
12-03-2001, 01:43 PM
#35
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Exactly . . .
. . . that's why I allow passing anywhere with or without a signal (with signals STRONGLY encouraged) in my Instructor group and anywhere with a signal even in my Medium group. I got pointed by once between 7 and 8 (yikes! - right in front of the pits!), once between 8 and 9 (and I was pleasantly surprised at who pointed me by there), twice between 1 and 2, once between 2 and 3, a couple of times between 3 and 4 and countless times between 4 and 5 (the passing zone technically didn't start until after 5).
I really love the Quattro Club and all the people who run and participate in the events - that's the main reason I support it even though I have a Porsche. However, I have a fundamental difference in philosophy when it comes to passing. The Quattro Club eventmasters think that passing is dangerous, and therefore want as little of it as possible. I feel that having as much passing as possible is safer because it provides separation between cars. How many trains did everone see going entire laps around the track a car length apart or less? That's what's dangerous - the frustration level at this event was pretty high, and not just for you, Paul and me. Communication is the key, and as you say, Corey, there was nothing dangerous about the point by's you received because there was total communication between the driver of the car being passed and you.
And while I'm on a roll, a quick comment about the use of turn signals rather than a point by. I'd come out of Turn 5 on the outside of the turn (far left side of the track) at close to 100 mph and there would usually be 3 to 5 slower cars on the very right side of the track. I couldn't tell if they had their turn signals on or not, or whether they had moved over to let me pass, or were there because they wanted to enter the carousel from the right side of the track, as they should if they're on the proper line. Naturally I assumed that they wanted me to pass and I continued on by, entering the carousel on the "racing line" on the inside. However, that ambiguity didn't need to be there. With a hand signal, I'd have known exactly what each driver intended.
Hmmmmm. Come to think of it, maybe this turn signal thing isn't such a bad idea! :-)
Todd Serota
tserota@tracquest.com (high speed driver education)
tserota@vinoquest.com (wine business) tserota@adelphia.net (law firm and home) www.tracquest.com (TracQuest web site) www.tracquest.com/deboard (TracQuest message board)
www.vinoquest.com (VinoQuest web site)
I really love the Quattro Club and all the people who run and participate in the events - that's the main reason I support it even though I have a Porsche. However, I have a fundamental difference in philosophy when it comes to passing. The Quattro Club eventmasters think that passing is dangerous, and therefore want as little of it as possible. I feel that having as much passing as possible is safer because it provides separation between cars. How many trains did everone see going entire laps around the track a car length apart or less? That's what's dangerous - the frustration level at this event was pretty high, and not just for you, Paul and me. Communication is the key, and as you say, Corey, there was nothing dangerous about the point by's you received because there was total communication between the driver of the car being passed and you.
And while I'm on a roll, a quick comment about the use of turn signals rather than a point by. I'd come out of Turn 5 on the outside of the turn (far left side of the track) at close to 100 mph and there would usually be 3 to 5 slower cars on the very right side of the track. I couldn't tell if they had their turn signals on or not, or whether they had moved over to let me pass, or were there because they wanted to enter the carousel from the right side of the track, as they should if they're on the proper line. Naturally I assumed that they wanted me to pass and I continued on by, entering the carousel on the "racing line" on the inside. However, that ambiguity didn't need to be there. With a hand signal, I'd have known exactly what each driver intended.
Hmmmmm. Come to think of it, maybe this turn signal thing isn't such a bad idea! :-)
Todd Serota
tserota@tracquest.com (high speed driver education)
tserota@vinoquest.com (wine business) tserota@adelphia.net (law firm and home) www.tracquest.com (TracQuest web site) www.tracquest.com/deboard (TracQuest message board)
www.vinoquest.com (VinoQuest web site)
12-03-2001, 02:10 PM
#37
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"Quattro Club eventmasters think that passing is dangerous, and therefore want as little of it as.."
Not true...not true. We talked...you knew my feelings.
12-03-2001, 02:25 PM
#38
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Dare I say, I stopped using the turn signal (more like I forgot), and used my finger instead...
I found it difficult (probably due to conditioning) to remember to use the turn signal. Lots of people did use the turn signal though, but during the sunset hours, you couldn't see the blinking light sometimes.
12-03-2001, 02:25 PM
#39
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Good Point - I'll Rephrase . . .
. . . Eventmasters who had the power to do anything about passing . . . :-)
Honestly, I don't know how the chain of command works at a Quattro Club events. In this case, I don't know why Dean deferred to Larry - because he wanted to or because he had to. Don't get me wrong - I love Larry and we're good friends (at least I think we are :-)), but we have strong disagreement on the passing and turn signal issues, as many seem to. In fact, I don't think I've ever encountered anyone at a Quattro Club event who thinks using turn signals is a good idea, besides Larry and some other people from National. Interestingly, the materials sent out for the Sears Point event said that the car being passed was to use a traditional point by signal. It wasn't until the drivers meeting the night before the event that the old turn signal policy was announced. I wonder what went on there.
Todd Serota
tserota@tracquest.com (high speed driver education)
tserota@vinoquest.com (wine business) tserota@adelphia.net (law firm and home) www.tracquest.com (TracQuest web site) www.tracquest.com/deboard (TracQuest message board)
www.vinoquest.com (VinoQuest web site)
Honestly, I don't know how the chain of command works at a Quattro Club events. In this case, I don't know why Dean deferred to Larry - because he wanted to or because he had to. Don't get me wrong - I love Larry and we're good friends (at least I think we are :-)), but we have strong disagreement on the passing and turn signal issues, as many seem to. In fact, I don't think I've ever encountered anyone at a Quattro Club event who thinks using turn signals is a good idea, besides Larry and some other people from National. Interestingly, the materials sent out for the Sears Point event said that the car being passed was to use a traditional point by signal. It wasn't until the drivers meeting the night before the event that the old turn signal policy was announced. I wonder what went on there.
Todd Serota
tserota@tracquest.com (high speed driver education)
tserota@vinoquest.com (wine business) tserota@adelphia.net (law firm and home) www.tracquest.com (TracQuest web site) www.tracquest.com/deboard (TracQuest message board)
www.vinoquest.com (VinoQuest web site)
12-03-2001, 02:30 PM
#40
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The More Advanced the Group . . .
. . . the less use there was of turn signals. I'd say it was 80/20 in the instructor group in favor of a normal point by over turn signals. Like you said, Jyoteen, it's conditioning. No other club that I'm aware of uses turn signals, so the more experienced a driver is, the more counter it is to everything they've done, and do as a matter of course without even thinking about it.
And the other problem you raise is a real one. I wasn't kidding in my other post. Coming out of Turn 5, I really couldn't see whether cars on the right had their turn signals on or not, and there isn't enough time there to look to figure it out. Now, some would say that unless I saw a turn signal, I shouldn't have passed, but that would have meant I'd never have come close to getting even one clear lap.
Todd Serota
tserota@tracquest.com (high speed driver education) tserota@vinoquest.com (wine business) tserota@adelphia.net (law firm and home) www.tracquest.com (TracQuest web site) www.tracquest.com/deboard (TracQuest message board) www.vinoquest.com (VinoQuest web site)
And the other problem you raise is a real one. I wasn't kidding in my other post. Coming out of Turn 5, I really couldn't see whether cars on the right had their turn signals on or not, and there isn't enough time there to look to figure it out. Now, some would say that unless I saw a turn signal, I shouldn't have passed, but that would have meant I'd never have come close to getting even one clear lap.
Todd Serota
tserota@tracquest.com (high speed driver education) tserota@vinoquest.com (wine business) tserota@adelphia.net (law firm and home) www.tracquest.com (TracQuest web site) www.tracquest.com/deboard (TracQuest message board) www.vinoquest.com (VinoQuest web site)