I need a local mechanic shop reccomendation near Redwood City that has an EGA, Exhaust Gas Analyzer
11-14-2006, 10:24 AM
#1
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I need a local mechanic shop reccomendation near Redwood City that has an EGA, Exhaust Gas Analyzer
My 1980 Scirocco S failed smog at a test only station because of High NO. Passed fine 2 years ago. Only difference is I had a tank full of 100 octane. Could that be the cause?
11-14-2006, 02:09 PM
#2
'80 Scirocco S??? I had one of those... (sniff). Can I visit yours? Suggestions...
1) Why do you still need to smog it? Over 25 model years old are exempt, aren't they?
2) High NOx is often from combustion temps being too high. Almost always EGR related. Then catalytic. I would suspect that your 100 octane contributed, too.
3) You can retard the ignition timing a bit to help, but they will check that on visual. Tolerance is +/- 2*, and you will probably bump CO up by doing so.
4) A stationary EGA won't help much, since they don't do the idle test anymore. You need the dyno. The most likely source would be a shop that used to do smog checks but didn't want to buy the dyno and so don't do it anymore, but again those readings won't tell you much.
5) The shop should have given you the emissions printout, esp. if you failed. How close were you in all categories (see #3 above)?
6) Kirberg Motors in Belmont was an authorized Bosch CIS K-Jetronic shop back in the day, if all else fails, but I think your problem should be pretty easy to solve.
7) I'd suggest burning off the gas, checking your plugs and EGR. For the retest, don't bother going back to a Test Only station. Go to a Gold Shield and talk to them nicely. If you have to have work done, they'll have to certify you anyway, and they just might be a little more lenient on the retest. From what I've seen, the Test Only stations don't see the readings as they happen (probably to prevent fraud - exactly why they have Test Only to begin with) but the Gold Shields do since they're full service.
8) Post up your readings from the test and we can see how much wiggle room you have.
9) If you really do have to test it an you still fail after Gold Shield, the state will contribute $500 to repairs excluding basic maintenance needs.
9) Really... can I drive your car? ;-) Mine was black with the red interior. Was dumped on ST springs and bars, Tokicos, Neuspeed stress bars, Leistriz exhaust, Weber big throat and an '82 air flow plate. I miss it.
2) High NOx is often from combustion temps being too high. Almost always EGR related. Then catalytic. I would suspect that your 100 octane contributed, too.
3) You can retard the ignition timing a bit to help, but they will check that on visual. Tolerance is +/- 2*, and you will probably bump CO up by doing so.
4) A stationary EGA won't help much, since they don't do the idle test anymore. You need the dyno. The most likely source would be a shop that used to do smog checks but didn't want to buy the dyno and so don't do it anymore, but again those readings won't tell you much.
5) The shop should have given you the emissions printout, esp. if you failed. How close were you in all categories (see #3 above)?
6) Kirberg Motors in Belmont was an authorized Bosch CIS K-Jetronic shop back in the day, if all else fails, but I think your problem should be pretty easy to solve.
7) I'd suggest burning off the gas, checking your plugs and EGR. For the retest, don't bother going back to a Test Only station. Go to a Gold Shield and talk to them nicely. If you have to have work done, they'll have to certify you anyway, and they just might be a little more lenient on the retest. From what I've seen, the Test Only stations don't see the readings as they happen (probably to prevent fraud - exactly why they have Test Only to begin with) but the Gold Shields do since they're full service.
8) Post up your readings from the test and we can see how much wiggle room you have.
9) If you really do have to test it an you still fail after Gold Shield, the state will contribute $500 to repairs excluding basic maintenance needs.
9) Really... can I drive your car? ;-) Mine was black with the red interior. Was dumped on ST springs and bars, Tokicos, Neuspeed stress bars, Leistriz exhaust, Weber big throat and an '82 air flow plate. I miss it.
11-14-2006, 03:09 PM
#4
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Here are the results
<center><img src="http://img92.exs.cx/img92/3793/P0001241_edited.jpg"></center><p>15 mph test the HC was 26/138 (pass), CO was .05/.85 (pass), NO was 1494/1148 (fail)
25 mph test the HC was 18/113 (pass), CO was .06/.65 (pass), NO was 1489/978 (fail)
This car has always previously passed very easlily. The car has a sticker from the referee approving the engine swap and proper shog equip.
2008 cc 8v.
25 mph test the HC was 18/113 (pass), CO was .06/.65 (pass), NO was 1489/978 (fail)
This car has always previously passed very easlily. The car has a sticker from the referee approving the engine swap and proper shog equip.
2008 cc 8v.
11-14-2006, 03:37 PM
#5
All smog shops can check emissions for a fee, unless you are looking for real time debug
You'll still need the new dyno machines because they are the only 3 gas analyzers around, unlike the older 2 gas analyzers.
NO is very difficult to correct on older cars. It's all about engine temps, so retard your timing, cool your engine, get some inert gas in there (EGR), make sure you have a fully functional 3 way cat, and make sure your compressions are good and sorta on the low side (decarbonize).
NO is very difficult to correct on older cars. It's all about engine temps, so retard your timing, cool your engine, get some inert gas in there (EGR), make sure you have a fully functional 3 way cat, and make sure your compressions are good and sorta on the low side (decarbonize).
11-14-2006, 03:37 PM
#6
Sweet! I had those ATS wheels for a while, too. OK, here's what I'd try:
Your CO and HC are really low. That would indicate to me that your cat is working correctly, and also that you have room to give -- as you adjust one thing down, the others may come up.
I bet you're running hot on combustion, especially since the gap is wider at 25mph. And the car is obviously not a daily driver.
- The 100 octane has to be a major contributor. Go as low as you can without pinging.
- Clean or replace the EGR.
- Check the plugs.
- Run some BG44K or Techron in case there's some carbon buildup.
- Retard the timing a touch if you can, but don't go outside of 2*.
- Overinflate the tires a bit. Little less rolling resistence might save a few ppm. Hey's it's free and easy.
- O2 sensor clean?
- I bet you'd be a good candidate for that Kragen $7 'guaranteed to pass' additive, if you're desperate, but I doubt you need it and it's really a true last resort.
Given it's clean in the other areas, I bet you'll pass with the basics above. Good luck!
I bet you're running hot on combustion, especially since the gap is wider at 25mph. And the car is obviously not a daily driver.
- The 100 octane has to be a major contributor. Go as low as you can without pinging.
- Clean or replace the EGR.
- Check the plugs.
- Run some BG44K or Techron in case there's some carbon buildup.
- Retard the timing a touch if you can, but don't go outside of 2*.
- Overinflate the tires a bit. Little less rolling resistence might save a few ppm. Hey's it's free and easy.
- O2 sensor clean?
- I bet you'd be a good candidate for that Kragen $7 'guaranteed to pass' additive, if you're desperate, but I doubt you need it and it's really a true last resort.
Given it's clean in the other areas, I bet you'll pass with the basics above. Good luck!
I didn't click. That's a long read BTW and good info!
