Break-In Period. How do you treat it?
02-01-2011, 12:12 PM
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Break-In Period. How do you treat it?
I was always under the assumption that you should never rev the vehicle or drive it hard during the first 1k mile etc.
But then i came across this from another forum. He's been working on cars for a very long time and he's a team mechanic for a local race team.
But then i came across this from another forum. He's been working on cars for a very long time and he's a team mechanic for a local race team.
Originally Posted by FMX_89,Jan 31 2011 07:50pm
The days of a "break in period" for production cars is long gone. Machining tolerances are now measured in one hundred thousandths of an inch instead of thousandths. The reason the dealer tells you to drive it easily while it's new is to cover their ***. If they told you how to break it in properly they would have warranty claims out the wazoo caused be people going out and beating the hell out of their cars while they are cold.
Once it is up to full operating temperature and the oil is warm (10 minutes or so) vary the RPM and engine load as much as possible. Accelerate hard, then decelerate with no brake applied. This pushes and pulls the piston rings against the piston and the cylinder wall. If you've ever seen "Cross Hatch" on a cylinder wall that is what it's for. When the cylinder is honed a cross hatch pattern of scratches is put into the walls to file the rings and cylinder wall together. If you put new rings in a smooth bore it would burn oil and have blowby from day one.
When a GM vehicle rolls off of the assembly line guess what is 30 feet in front of it? A Chassis dyno. They strap it down, crank it up, bring it up to temperature by cruising at 35mph, then they beat the **** out of it for 4-5 pulls before it rolls out of the factory. That's where those 5-10 miles come from that you see on a brand new car at the lot. Every manufacturer is different but that's how most of them do it. ALL performance shops break in their engines hard, and they can cost $3,000-$300,000 each.
You wouldn't have to do it much. Maybe 3-4 good whacks every time you drive it for the first week. Then it's good. Follow the dealer maintenance that I'm sure they include with the car. It probably has a 500 mile oil change and a 3,000 mile oil change then it goes to whatever the regular interval is.
Once it is up to full operating temperature and the oil is warm (10 minutes or so) vary the RPM and engine load as much as possible. Accelerate hard, then decelerate with no brake applied. This pushes and pulls the piston rings against the piston and the cylinder wall. If you've ever seen "Cross Hatch" on a cylinder wall that is what it's for. When the cylinder is honed a cross hatch pattern of scratches is put into the walls to file the rings and cylinder wall together. If you put new rings in a smooth bore it would burn oil and have blowby from day one.
When a GM vehicle rolls off of the assembly line guess what is 30 feet in front of it? A Chassis dyno. They strap it down, crank it up, bring it up to temperature by cruising at 35mph, then they beat the **** out of it for 4-5 pulls before it rolls out of the factory. That's where those 5-10 miles come from that you see on a brand new car at the lot. Every manufacturer is different but that's how most of them do it. ALL performance shops break in their engines hard, and they can cost $3,000-$300,000 each.
You wouldn't have to do it much. Maybe 3-4 good whacks every time you drive it for the first week. Then it's good. Follow the dealer maintenance that I'm sure they include with the car. It probably has a 500 mile oil change and a 3,000 mile oil change then it goes to whatever the regular interval is.
02-01-2011, 12:43 PM
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IMO, he's irresponsible to say, "The days of a "break in period" for production cars is long gone." True that rings can be run-in very quickly. I've done it on every car I've ever owned...and almost exactly like he describes. But what about the bearings and all of the parts that are machined to such close tolerances. The space between the parts is ever so small that there is very little room for the oh-so important oil cushion. Running an new engine to high RPMs will pound the oil right out of those tight spaces and then you get metal on metal, associated friction and abnormal wear. BMW, Audi, and Porsche all recommend a break-in period...as well as many other manufacturers. They've forgotten more about building engines than this nitwit will ever know. Who you gonna trust?
Read your manual and follow the recommendations...there's just no good reason not to.
02-01-2011, 01:08 PM
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Well everyone has their opinion on how to break in a motor. I'm in the drive it like you stole it camp. Have done it with every vehicle I own. My other vehicle, a VW GTI actually put out higher than average hp on the dyno as well in stock form. Was that due to the break in method? Maybe.
Oh, and its got over 120,000 trouble free miles on it currently.
Oh, and its got over 120,000 trouble free miles on it currently.
02-01-2011, 02:42 PM
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I've always wanted to try this method www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm because it makes sense.
I'm too chicken to try it though. I still use the laborious keep RPM below 4K, vary speed and load, and generally baby it for the first 1K miles.
I'm too chicken to try it though. I still use the laborious keep RPM below 4K, vary speed and load, and generally baby it for the first 1K miles.
02-02-2011, 01:01 AM
#5
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Clearly the safest method is to follow the manufacturers recommendations. This might not produce the best results but at least you can't go too far wrong. In saying that, I chose the "seat the rings ASAP" method.
I believe that engine run in is all about seating the rings and nothing to do with bedding in or "fitting" the bearings. If you've ever picked up a set of bearings (which I'm sure you all have - right?) and tried rubbing the white metal surface, you'll know how thin and fragile it is. If your journal to bearing fit is so poor that you need to run the engine to get them to "fit" then I'm sorry, but you engine is going to be knackered within its first revolution regardless of run in procedure.
As far as making a recommendation however, the only responsible thing to do is to recommend following the manufacturers recommendations. Anything else is at your own risk.
I believe that engine run in is all about seating the rings and nothing to do with bedding in or "fitting" the bearings. If you've ever picked up a set of bearings (which I'm sure you all have - right?) and tried rubbing the white metal surface, you'll know how thin and fragile it is. If your journal to bearing fit is so poor that you need to run the engine to get them to "fit" then I'm sorry, but you engine is going to be knackered within its first revolution regardless of run in procedure.
As far as making a recommendation however, the only responsible thing to do is to recommend following the manufacturers recommendations. Anything else is at your own risk.
02-02-2011, 04:50 AM
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I am picking up my new Q5 2.oT in the next few weeks and wondering, the drive it under load to set the rings method makes sense in many ways. But the article says the first 20 miles are the most critical. Most Audi's if you get them right off the boat have 15-20 miles on them. Has some testing/seating already been performed by Audi? IS there still a window of opportunity to do the more controversial procedure if your delivered car has 20 miles on it?
02-03-2011, 02:10 AM
#7
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Let me state up front that I don't know what you should do, however...
Many owners of the 2.0TFSI report unusually high oil consumption. Who knows what the reason for high consumption is - valve stem seals?, crank case breather.... poor ring sealing? or maybe poor turbo seals?
I did see an Audi produced video on YouTube about 12 months ago which was showing how they use some new laser finishing process on the bores to produce a very specific surface finish. It's possible that the 2.0TFSI has this finish. If so then it is possible that that is the reason for the unusual oil consumption. Who knows what this might mean for the "drive it like you stole it" run in theory.
Many owners of the 2.0TFSI report unusually high oil consumption. Who knows what the reason for high consumption is - valve stem seals?, crank case breather.... poor ring sealing? or maybe poor turbo seals?
I did see an Audi produced video on YouTube about 12 months ago which was showing how they use some new laser finishing process on the bores to produce a very specific surface finish. It's possible that the 2.0TFSI has this finish. If so then it is possible that that is the reason for the unusual oil consumption. Who knows what this might mean for the "drive it like you stole it" run in theory.
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02-03-2011, 02:16 AM
#8
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Well everyone has their opinion on how to break in a motor. I'm in the drive it like you stole it camp. Have done it with every vehicle I own. My other vehicle, a VW GTI actually put out higher than average hp on the dyno as well in stock form. Was that due to the break in method? Maybe.
Oh, and its got over 120,000 trouble free miles on it currently.
Oh, and its got over 120,000 trouble free miles on it currently.
What year was your GTI and which engine did it have?
What was your oil consumption like?
What engine do you have in your Q5, how did you run it in and what is your oil consumption like?
02-03-2011, 04:53 AM
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I am not surprised. I used to owe an Audi A3 2.0T 2006. That car consumed oil in quantities. I had to add a quarter of synthetic oil every 2000 to 3000 miles. Insane!
