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Installing bluetooth module in Audi Q5

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Old 12-26-2017, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Redd
"1. I am sure Navigation systems with ...Google maps, and Google ...support exist."
I've seen a number of mapping apps that appear to be using the GMaps base set. But even if a third party app used their base maps under license, they'd still suffer from the same errors, and Google sometimes has whoppers, which are sometimes uncorrectable. Then on the routing logic itself, they might need a great deal of computing power (which the Google server farms have) to do decent routing. And although Google owns Waze, they don't use all of the same traffic data for the plain GMaps users.
What there would be to gain from a 3rd party app, I don't know. Since GMaps is "free" it wouldn't be price. Performance? Unlikely.
There are some alternative map databases from sources like ESRI and Nokia(?) but ESRI tends to play in the professional market.

"2. I am happy with 3rd party Bluetooth but not so much with aux Bluetooth."
Not surprising. I know Audi's use of an SDHC card in my radio, ten years after SDHC was replaced by the SDXC standard, tells me that Audi has no concern with keeping up with standards, or the competition. I get tempted to simply rip out the "radio" and drop in standard double-DIN equipment, which can run rings around Audi's. {Rings pun intended.]

"3. I am currently not very happy with my back up camera"
In the US they were supposed to be mandated in 2014 but the automakers pushed that off. I refused to pay $3000 for a package that would include a camera and haven't been motivated to go tearing things apart to install one. Might be time to buy a newer GPS, which includes a backup camera for under $2"

"4. The screen is not touch screen with radio concert."
Funny thing about touchscreen, you hear a lot of people (and safety organizations) complain that you CANNOT OPERATE TOUCHSCREEN WITHOUT TAKING YOUR EYES OFF THE ROAD. So the way they are normally implemented is an intrinsic safety hazard. Try to press the "fan speed switch" button on your car, without looking down at the buttons. Can you find it by feel?
I prefer the old fashioned way. I know that every **** or button on the product (the car) adds at least $5 to the build cost of the car (which then becomes $20 to the sale price) but I still prefer buttons. I could adjust the fan speed on my old car without looking. My fingers knew "edge, bottom, switch in this corner, clicks 4x" and I didn't have to see it to use it. Audi? Find button, change thermostat to fan speed, view fan speed, change fan speed with ****, change **** back to thermostat" with eyes off the road all the way. That is not progress. If it needs that many steps...it needs voice control.

"5. WiDi if needed to connect phone / GPS maps"
Wireless standards keep changing. No doubt Audi will catch up and offer 5G service, which was due to deploy this year but is more likely to start in 2020 in the US. Perhaps Audi has a goal of 2030 for that.(G)

"6. Dvd rom support "
How quaint! You are still using disc media?(G) There have been a number of "better than DVD" standards in the last decade, but that really IS all obsolete, replaced by streaming and USB3+ storage and SSDs. You can get a terabyte SSD on a card the size of a postage card these days, and the SDXC standard that Audi has ignored for all these years provides for 2TB (or is it 4?) on just one SDXC card. Even if 256GB may be the max for sale now. Discs? Or any kind? WAY too expensive to implement that much hardware with moving parts.

All the issues vanish if the radio decks are kept to a double-DIN standard. The car makers all went proprietary in the 1980's (and for a while, that became illegal in the US market) because their goal is to extort money from buyers, by making nothing compatible. If they could, I'm sure they'd use incompatible fuel, oil, and even special gas in the tires. Audi already has a special windshield-washer fluid sensor that can be destroyed by "That is not ours" standard fluids, yes?
I only said DVD rom support because Audi uses it to update navigation system and copy maps to SD card or Internal HDD depending on the MMI 3G type, and as a video player which radio concert fails to do so (updated response to dvd + video player capability). (though there is a VIM parameter one can modify with few diagnostics). I agree with your comments. My laptop has two SSDs (and 2 OS, one with windows 7 for obvious reasons) so I am also in favor of SSD, SD cards, USB 3 etc. I also said that I prefer mmi 3G plus, which I believe comes with HDD (40GB I think), audi connect, SD card, Google maps, google earth, but since I do not have it retrofitted yet, package has not arrived yet (seller did not disclose the part number) I did not want to give emphasis on that yet. Tomorrow I will know.

Marketing is tricky but most manufacturers try to lock customers in and milk profits from GPS maps, or mmi 3G plus or other technologies (or odis service online system, component protection, etc) that customers are forced to buy, even for calibrating back up camera or Xenon lights.

Last edited by apoelistas; 12-27-2017 at 04:37 AM.
Old 12-28-2017, 07:48 AM
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Marketing is way more than tricky, it is a black art at best. Impossibly complex really, to sort out the real versus incremental profits and costs in an objective way. For instance, if you milk an extra $2500 out of "this sale" does that help keep that customer with you for their buying lifespan, which may be 45 more years? Or, do you antagonize them, and make it more likely that they'll look at the competition next time? And you lose 45 years worth of future sales, with one short-term profit? Or would "free upgrades" be a way to get them into the service shop, where a "free checkup? Oil change while you're here? Seen the new model?" also gives the dealership a chance to make many more frequent sales and profits. There are folks who have "proven" every side of the argument.

But the DVD upgrades are a legacy item, I think. Part of the contracted terms developed by the OEM's, who probably felt the DVD was a good asset control at that time, and in fact a high speed way to get data into the car, compared to the other options out there. I'm not sure how fast data can be pushed into the OBD2 bus but do recall hearing complaints about slow serial data not long ago at another dealership. Who knows, we could see onboard 5G hotspots "free" but installed as service features, not intended for customer use.
Old 12-29-2017, 02:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Redd
Marketing is way more than tricky, it is a black art at best. Impossibly complex really, to sort out the real versus incremental profits and costs in an objective way. For instance, if you milk an extra $2500 out of "this sale" does that help keep that customer with you for their buying lifespan, which may be 45 more years? Or, do you antagonize them, and make it more likely that they'll look at the competition next time? And you lose 45 years worth of future sales, with one short-term profit? Or would "free upgrades" be a way to get them into the service shop, where a "free checkup? Oil change while you're here? Seen the new model?" also gives the dealership a chance to make many more frequent sales and profits. There are folks who have "proven" every side of the argument.

But the DVD upgrades are a legacy item, I think. Part of the contracted terms developed by the OEM's, who probably felt the DVD was a good asset control at that time, and in fact a high speed way to get data into the car, compared to the other options out there. I'm not sure how fast data can be pushed into the OBD2 bus but do recall hearing complaints about slow serial data not long ago at another dealership. Who knows, we could see onboard 5G hotspots "free" but installed as service features, not intended for customer use.
the question is what is the best value bluetooth add on for radio concert incl camera which one will also upgrade at some point in time.
Solution 1 (price 600)
1. audi bluetooth interface / fiscon kufatec interface (say 350-400)
2. camera interface is also needed so say for example rs-1103M (say 150 if you buy from aliexpress)
Deficiency no navigation, no media player
3. using tablet or phone as gps / media player / 4G / touchscreen
4. a2dp aux/AMI interface also needed. (say 50)


Solution 2 (price 600)
navigation interface for radio concert (just a screen replacement + camera + bluetooth/gps wiring)
has radio concert support, has back up camera, has navigation, has miracast/widi, has media player, bluetooth, touchscreen etc
Price say 500-600
​​​​​​

Solution 3 (2X solution 1 or 2)
MMi 3g or mmi 3g plus

​​​​​​price about 1370 for used parts the least
(350 cables incl gps, 200 mmi interface, radio 200, 7 inch screen 200, component protection 100, gateway 200, console 120)

having done solution 1 I dont think it was the best choice because solution 2 is same price and has more features.

After this summary I will not upgrade to 3 bcs it is expensive and cumbersome. Either solution 1 and 2 is enough. Already seller refunded mmi 3G harness purchase but I need to sell the mmi 3G unit. I might retrofit solution 2 too in the future.

Last edited by apoelistas; 12-29-2017 at 09:32 AM.
Old 12-29-2017, 09:30 AM
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Too complicated for me to explore those options. In the US there are comments that WiDi never really worked, or finally did work but never was embraced by the market, and that Intel has been cutting off support for it. 3G, 4G, these means different things here and there. What the EU and most of the world calls "4G" is called 4G/LTE or just LTE in the US, and what we call "4G" is actually what you call 3G, with a high backbone speed. (Are we having fun yet?(G)

All the complex solutions, often from vendors with no reputation and no guarantee, with what may be orphaned technology...No, I ran out of patience for doing the unpaid testing and documentation that vendors should have been doing, long ago. They used to say "We'll send you one, figure it out and let us know, ok?" but now they expect you to pay them for the pig in a poke. Life's too short.
Old 12-29-2017, 12:33 PM
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Having already retrofitted a back up camera and bluetooth interface I dont think solution 1 and 2 are complicated. Solution 1 however is as expensive as solution 2 this is why I believe solution 2 (RSNAV) is better since you dont need to use a phone or tablet or a a2dp adaptor. Comes with 4G/LTE support, a2dp, GPS, bluetooth, Screen mirroring needs license, CAM, Google maps, Sygic or any google play navigation app can be installed. Google Auto can also be supported at an extra cost. (See DenisMichell link). Has an audi app button which transforms screen to normal audi display.

Intel has discontinued WiDi due to public outrage, Intel did not support older graphics cards (only provided generic driver) in new OS thus WiDi was not supported either (needs 3 hardware drivers to function, Graphics driver, WiFi driver, WiDi driver)

There are 2 RSNav options 7" and 10". Only problem for UK RHD owners there is no 10" RHD hardware option yet (only a 7")

mmi3G has other advantages that solution 1 and 2 do not support: radar support (depends if gateway prefacelift is to blame), can communicate with Gateway/coded, can calibrate back up camera distance lines, has secret menu, has ADS on screen support etc. but these features are not worth the excessive price difference from solution 2.

The problem I see with RSNav is no microphone dome input/adaptor. Microphone is on the Nav unit built in but I would prefer to use my existing dome aux mic adaptor instead. Also no hdmi in support (maybe with miracast hdmi is old technology) No usb 3.0 support. Will buy when unit improves (usb 3.0 and mic input)

Last edited by apoelistas; 12-29-2017 at 11:43 PM.
Old 12-30-2017, 01:44 AM
  #16  
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I can do any online service for Audi remotely like component protection removal by team viewer
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