Permanently Disable "Service Due" Light
04-09-2014, 01:50 PM
#41
AudiWorld Super User
Spijun has stated, and I have heard this from some good dealer sources, that the VW/Audi group with new vehicles coming out is going to lock out any non-dealer VCDS type adjustments from taking place. The vehicle will be required to be hook to the VW/Audi corporate computer server to open up access to change/adjust coding such as mods, service reminders, retracting rear brake pads, battery change, etc. I know that the indie shops in the US will cause a big stink about this and will most likley prevent it from happening, but it still can... Audi can make access so nasty that even Ross-Tech won't have a work around.
04-09-2014, 02:05 PM
#42
AudiWorld Super User
The problem with this is the "right to repair" law already passed in Massachusetts (86% voter support) and being considered federally by the U.S. Congress. If passed, that would require that independent repair shops access to the same vehicle diagnostic and repair information made available to the manufacturers’ dealers. Audi would have a tough time challenging this as it already would be in MA.
My good friend is the owner of the BMW service center, got a free education and training but had to purchase diagnostic equipment and tools valued at 160,000 Euro
Last edited by spijun; 04-09-2014 at 02:13 PM.
04-09-2014, 02:36 PM
#43
AudiWorld Senior Member
Volvo indy were facing the same problem when Volvo wouldn't release the repair info for newer models. Did it change anything... Nope there are still indy repairing new Volvo's. The problem with the Audi system is that it requires you to connect the vehicule to the server. i can understand they are trying to protect intellectual property but at the same time are making unfair competition.
04-09-2014, 03:08 PM
#44
AudiWorld Super User
Ganny, again, I don't see any such definition of defect.
You think it is a design defect to "require" trained, equipped, authorized service for the vehicle. Audi differs in their thinking, they seem to think unauthorized untrained ill-equipped laymen may cause damage to the vehicle, or the public, or Audi's profits. (Nah!)
But regardless of the causes, I see a business decision to make things operate in a certain way rather than a different way. There's nothing BROKEN, there's no DEFECT. Read up on US state and federal warranty laws and you won't find anything that says a difference of opinion is a DEFECT.
Hey, I don't like being extorted $600 for a paint color. That doesn't mean the lack of paint colors is a DEFECT though. It is simply a business decision.
Defect? No, there's nothing defective about how they choose to implement maintenance reminders. Hostile, extortive, nanny-state-ish, many words for it. But "defect" isn't defined that way, by anyone, anywhere.
You think it is a design defect to "require" trained, equipped, authorized service for the vehicle. Audi differs in their thinking, they seem to think unauthorized untrained ill-equipped laymen may cause damage to the vehicle, or the public, or Audi's profits. (Nah!)
But regardless of the causes, I see a business decision to make things operate in a certain way rather than a different way. There's nothing BROKEN, there's no DEFECT. Read up on US state and federal warranty laws and you won't find anything that says a difference of opinion is a DEFECT.
Hey, I don't like being extorted $600 for a paint color. That doesn't mean the lack of paint colors is a DEFECT though. It is simply a business decision.
Defect? No, there's nothing defective about how they choose to implement maintenance reminders. Hostile, extortive, nanny-state-ish, many words for it. But "defect" isn't defined that way, by anyone, anywhere.
04-09-2014, 07:24 PM
#45
AudiWorld Super User
Yes it will pass....
The problem with this is the "right to repair" law already passed in Massachusetts (86% voter support) and being considered federally by the U.S. Congress. If passed, that would require that independent repair shops access to the same vehicle diagnostic and repair information made available to the manufacturers’ dealers. Audi would have a tough time challenging this as it already would be in MA.
04-09-2014, 07:54 PM
#46
AudiWorld Super User
It isn't just "right to repair" laws but when a major business, like a car maker with franchised repair dealers, takes an action "in restraint of trade" which prevents others from freely competing with them, that's illegal.
Audi has been very clever. Typically a car maker makes their printed manuals available to the public, and that fulfills the obligation to not restrain the competition, because the knowledge is out there for everyone.
Except, Audi doesn't print anything any more, do they? They've very cleverly said oh, sure, this is too complicated to print now, so we do it all on the computer, and gee, accessing that is expensive. Well...that would depend on how you figured the costs for incremental or average access rights to the computer system, how you amortized development costs, all the games an MBA can play to show how something very cheap is really very expensive.
Sort of like the way US drug companies can somehow profitably sell drugs in Canada, that "have to" be sold for 10x the price in the US.
OTOH the US has been levying some huge fines against the banking and auto industries lately. If they get pissed off at Audi's cleverness...maybe the proverbial wheel will turn.
Audi has been very clever. Typically a car maker makes their printed manuals available to the public, and that fulfills the obligation to not restrain the competition, because the knowledge is out there for everyone.
Except, Audi doesn't print anything any more, do they? They've very cleverly said oh, sure, this is too complicated to print now, so we do it all on the computer, and gee, accessing that is expensive. Well...that would depend on how you figured the costs for incremental or average access rights to the computer system, how you amortized development costs, all the games an MBA can play to show how something very cheap is really very expensive.
Sort of like the way US drug companies can somehow profitably sell drugs in Canada, that "have to" be sold for 10x the price in the US.
OTOH the US has been levying some huge fines against the banking and auto industries lately. If they get pissed off at Audi's cleverness...maybe the proverbial wheel will turn.
04-09-2014, 08:59 PM
#47
AudiWorld Super User
but as stated below, Audi will charge extortion prices to access their server and the software. Most independents will bow out. My friend owns an indie shop and when an Audi comes in from a two and he can't fix it he calls me to bring my VCDS. Even he states that the 1 or 2 he gets a year in tows isn't worth buying all the software and hardware to access VW/Audis, he just turns those away.
While Audi may try to make it difficult, if a right to repair law is passed, I believe they will have no choice to to comply with indy support nationwide as here. If some expensive special equipment is needed, there are often workarounds. For example, I asked him if he had the special jig for dropping the driveshaft when replacing the seals. He said no need, he has an alternative with a jig he fashioned on his own.
BTW, I would find it surprising if an Audi/VW specialist indy shop didn't have their own VCDS.
04-10-2014, 07:09 AM
#48
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Ganny, again, I don't see any such definition of defect.
That is the common legal definition of design defect - look it up and see my prior post
You think it is a design defect to "require" trained, equipped, authorized service for the vehicle. Audi differs in their thinking, they seem to think unauthorized untrained ill-equipped laymen may cause damage to the vehicle, or the public, or Audi's profits. (Nah!)
Absolutely. No training required to change oil. Its actually easier to change the oil on the Q5 that most other cars I've worked on.
But regardless of the causes, I see a business decision to make things operate in a certain way rather than a different way. There's nothing BROKEN, there's no DEFECT. Read up on US state and federal warranty laws and you won't find anything that says a difference of opinion is a DEFECT.
You are confusing "manufacturing defect" from "design defect". If the "business decision" is poor, it can result in a design defect.
Hey, I don't like being extorted $600 for a paint color. That doesn't mean the lack of paint colors is a DEFECT though. It is simply a business decision.
No one is talking about color here. "Design" does not mean fashion or style - it means the engineering design.
Defect? No, there's nothing defective about how they choose to implement maintenance reminders. Hostile, extortive, nanny-state-ish, many words for it. But "defect" isn't defined that way, by anyone, anywhere. Incorrect, I provided the defintion of design defect in my earlier post. Not being able to change the oil, brake pads, etc. DIY is a failure in design. Whether it was intentional, unintentional, negligent, reckless is irrelevant.
That is the common legal definition of design defect - look it up and see my prior post
You think it is a design defect to "require" trained, equipped, authorized service for the vehicle. Audi differs in their thinking, they seem to think unauthorized untrained ill-equipped laymen may cause damage to the vehicle, or the public, or Audi's profits. (Nah!)
Absolutely. No training required to change oil. Its actually easier to change the oil on the Q5 that most other cars I've worked on.
But regardless of the causes, I see a business decision to make things operate in a certain way rather than a different way. There's nothing BROKEN, there's no DEFECT. Read up on US state and federal warranty laws and you won't find anything that says a difference of opinion is a DEFECT.
You are confusing "manufacturing defect" from "design defect". If the "business decision" is poor, it can result in a design defect.
Hey, I don't like being extorted $600 for a paint color. That doesn't mean the lack of paint colors is a DEFECT though. It is simply a business decision.
No one is talking about color here. "Design" does not mean fashion or style - it means the engineering design.
Defect? No, there's nothing defective about how they choose to implement maintenance reminders. Hostile, extortive, nanny-state-ish, many words for it. But "defect" isn't defined that way, by anyone, anywhere. Incorrect, I provided the defintion of design defect in my earlier post. Not being able to change the oil, brake pads, etc. DIY is a failure in design. Whether it was intentional, unintentional, negligent, reckless is irrelevant.
04-10-2014, 07:14 AM
#49
AudiWorld Super User
My small indy, a former dealer senior service tech who started his own shop 2 years ago, has just about everything he needs, including repair manuals, to work on just about any Audi except R8s, body and wheel/tire work. He's even in process of getting approved to do key coding from Audi (He told me Audi has a dedicated regional rep to support indys now due to the 2012 law passed in MA).
While Audi may try to make it difficult, if a right to repair law is passed, I believe they will have no choice to to comply with indy support nationwide as here. If some expensive special equipment is needed, there are often workarounds. For example, I asked him if he had the special jig for dropping the driveshaft when replacing the seals. He said no need, he has an alternative with a jig he fashioned on his own.
BTW, I would find it surprising if an Audi/VW specialist indy shop didn't have their own VCDS.
While Audi may try to make it difficult, if a right to repair law is passed, I believe they will have no choice to to comply with indy support nationwide as here. If some expensive special equipment is needed, there are often workarounds. For example, I asked him if he had the special jig for dropping the driveshaft when replacing the seals. He said no need, he has an alternative with a jig he fashioned on his own.
BTW, I would find it surprising if an Audi/VW specialist indy shop didn't have their own VCDS.
04-10-2014, 07:57 AM
#50
AudiWorld Senior Member
No design defect by legal definition. Look it up.
You can still change your own oil and reset the oil change due indicator.
You can even keep driving with the service due light on.
You can override and reset the "service due" indicator yourself with VCDS.
or go to the dealer to reset god forbid.
Your design defect claim is like you saying you don't have a tool so that makes your car a design defect. Like a metric hex key for example.
You are entitled to your own opinion, but facts are facts.
You can still change your own oil and reset the oil change due indicator.
You can even keep driving with the service due light on.
You can override and reset the "service due" indicator yourself with VCDS.
or go to the dealer to reset god forbid.
Your design defect claim is like you saying you don't have a tool so that makes your car a design defect. Like a metric hex key for example.
You are entitled to your own opinion, but facts are facts.