Pop Up Camper Towing
06-10-2013, 11:58 AM
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Pop Up Camper Towing
Hi, I've looked through threads for the past few days and have become more and more skeptical about the towing capacity of ANY vehicle based on my reading. I'm about to order a 2014 Audi Q5 and would like some input from people that have experience towing pop-up campers. I'm not really interested in the tent type (looking at Trailmanor).
Generally, it will just be me and my 6 year old and our bicycles, but concerts and festivals will also be likely destinations with the camper, so there would also be beer and ice
I'm trying to determine what I can safely tow based on the specs below and people experience. The 3.0 TDI is the same engine and almost identical accompanying transmission used in the large Audi Q7 (and Toureg is maybe). The shorter wheelbase accounts for the drop in towing capacity from 6,600 lbs, and in Europe the vehicle is rated for
3.0-liter TDI® direct-injection clean diesel engine w/ 240 hp
Torque is 428 @1750-2250
(580 Nm)
Eight-speed tiptronic® automatic transmission w/ sport program & manual shift mode
quattro® permanent all-wheel drive system w/ asymmetric/dynamic torque distribution (torque split 40:60)
Trailer hitch provision in the electrical cable tree; towing capacity of 4,400lbs. (w/440 pound tongue-weight)
Wheelbase: 110.5 (2807 mm)
Length: 182.6 (4639 mm)
Curb Weight: 4475 (2030 kg)
Diesel
Based on these figures and a much lighter payload than a family of 4 would require, could you ladies and gents please comment on which of these is the largest you would consider for this vehicle?
The specs are located at http://www.trailmanor.com/WebDocs/Sh...ecs/specs.html
Thanks in advance!
Generally, it will just be me and my 6 year old and our bicycles, but concerts and festivals will also be likely destinations with the camper, so there would also be beer and ice
I'm trying to determine what I can safely tow based on the specs below and people experience. The 3.0 TDI is the same engine and almost identical accompanying transmission used in the large Audi Q7 (and Toureg is maybe). The shorter wheelbase accounts for the drop in towing capacity from 6,600 lbs, and in Europe the vehicle is rated for 3.0-liter TDI® direct-injection clean diesel engine w/ 240 hp
Torque is 428 @1750-2250
(580 Nm)
Eight-speed tiptronic® automatic transmission w/ sport program & manual shift mode
quattro® permanent all-wheel drive system w/ asymmetric/dynamic torque distribution (torque split 40:60)
Trailer hitch provision in the electrical cable tree; towing capacity of 4,400lbs. (w/440 pound tongue-weight)
Wheelbase: 110.5 (2807 mm)
Length: 182.6 (4639 mm)
Curb Weight: 4475 (2030 kg)
Diesel
Based on these figures and a much lighter payload than a family of 4 would require, could you ladies and gents please comment on which of these is the largest you would consider for this vehicle?
The specs are located at http://www.trailmanor.com/WebDocs/Sh...ecs/specs.html
Thanks in advance!
06-10-2013, 12:23 PM
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I can't comment on the Q5 specifically since I haven't actually got my vehicle yet. But for me, it depends on the roads. If it's mostly flat, I wouldn't hesitate to get any of those. Even with gear (roughly 500 lbs worth), you would still be roughly 1000 lbs below the towing capacity which leaves room for power.
06-10-2013, 01:26 PM
#3
I've owned a TM 2720 for 6 yrs now. Currently use a midsize pickup to tow it now, but looking at the Touareg TDI and Q5 TDI in the near future. No qualms about either TDI, other than I'm guessing I might not need a WDH with the T-eg. Suggest you become a trial member on www.trailmanorowners.com. It's free and good for 30 days. $12/yr thereafter. There's a rather large section concerning people's experiences with TMs and various tow vehicles. One thing you'll quickly notice is that people generally recommend adding 1000 pounds to the dry weight to figure out a safe true weight for towing purposes. Reason is TM dry wt doesn't include awning or A/C (100 lbs each), 20 or 40 gal tanks full of water (8 lbs/gal), two 20-lb propane tanks, 12v battery (many TM owners run a pair of 65-lb 6v golf cart batteries) and the ever-ubiquitous "stuff".
Another quick thought is try to find a good used TM vs getting soaked for a pricy new one. Easier said than done, but you can save some serious money and reliability is pretty good with TMs. Also, most everything that can go wrong has a fix written up on the website somewhere. Example: 2001ish-2006ish TMs (that would be me) had a Norcold N300 3-way fridge that wouldn't stay lit on propane after a few years. Dealer charges $120 for a "kit" and labor. I have a step-by-step writeup (with the help of others) that easily corrects it for $2. Basically, pull out the fridge and change a couple of easily-reached wires.
As to how big a TM you can tow, there are a few important variables like elevation, hills, mountain or desert driving etc etc. On the TM owners website, most of the "old heads" on there recommend a 5000-lb tow rating as minimum, however several flatlanders tow TMs just fine with 3500# rated TVs.
IMHO, a Q5 TDI will adequately tow any of the TMs using a WDH. A Touareg (like my Nissan Frontier) should reasonably manhandle the load.
It's all a question of what margin of safety you are comfortable with. I'd prefer 1000#, but I'm not worried about the Q5 suspension being the limiting factor. Usually, it's a gutless high-revving V6 engine that's the limiting factor (and the wear-and-tear that ensues).
If you ask your question on trailmanorowners.com, be prepared to be bombarded with responses! And as with any vehicle owner's forum, there are folks that B.S. (hint: toss out any response that starts with "I heard that...") and a good number of folks that have "been-there-done-that".
For just you and your child, I'd say take a look at the 2417 or 2619, equipped with a bike rack. Plenty for your purposes unless you'll have friends in the camper as well.
Sorry for the rambling post but you hit me right where I lay, towing a TM. Good luck with your search!
Another quick thought is try to find a good used TM vs getting soaked for a pricy new one. Easier said than done, but you can save some serious money and reliability is pretty good with TMs. Also, most everything that can go wrong has a fix written up on the website somewhere. Example: 2001ish-2006ish TMs (that would be me) had a Norcold N300 3-way fridge that wouldn't stay lit on propane after a few years. Dealer charges $120 for a "kit" and labor. I have a step-by-step writeup (with the help of others) that easily corrects it for $2. Basically, pull out the fridge and change a couple of easily-reached wires.
As to how big a TM you can tow, there are a few important variables like elevation, hills, mountain or desert driving etc etc. On the TM owners website, most of the "old heads" on there recommend a 5000-lb tow rating as minimum, however several flatlanders tow TMs just fine with 3500# rated TVs.
IMHO, a Q5 TDI will adequately tow any of the TMs using a WDH. A Touareg (like my Nissan Frontier) should reasonably manhandle the load.
It's all a question of what margin of safety you are comfortable with. I'd prefer 1000#, but I'm not worried about the Q5 suspension being the limiting factor. Usually, it's a gutless high-revving V6 engine that's the limiting factor (and the wear-and-tear that ensues).
If you ask your question on trailmanorowners.com, be prepared to be bombarded with responses! And as with any vehicle owner's forum, there are folks that B.S. (hint: toss out any response that starts with "I heard that...") and a good number of folks that have "been-there-done-that".
For just you and your child, I'd say take a look at the 2417 or 2619, equipped with a bike rack. Plenty for your purposes unless you'll have friends in the camper as well.
Sorry for the rambling post but you hit me right where I lay, towing a TM. Good luck with your search!
06-11-2013, 11:15 AM
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I've owned a TM 2720 for 6 yrs now. Currently use a midsize pickup to tow it now, but looking at the Touareg TDI and Q5 TDI in the near future. No qualms about either TDI, other than I'm guessing I might not need a WDH with the T-eg. Suggest you become a trial member on www.trailmanorowners.com. It's free and good for 30 days. $12/yr thereafter. There's a rather large section concerning people's experiences with TMs and various tow vehicles. One thing you'll quickly notice is that people generally recommend adding 1000 pounds to the dry weight to figure out a safe true weight for towing purposes. Reason is TM dry wt doesn't include awning or A/C (100 lbs each), 20 or 40 gal tanks full of water (8 lbs/gal), two 20-lb propane tanks, 12v battery (many TM owners run a pair of 65-lb 6v golf cart batteries) and the ever-ubiquitous "stuff".
Another quick thought is try to find a good used TM vs getting soaked for a pricy new one. Easier said than done, but you can save some serious money and reliability is pretty good with TMs. Also, most everything that can go wrong has a fix written up on the website somewhere. Example: 2001ish-2006ish TMs (that would be me) had a Norcold N300 3-way fridge that wouldn't stay lit on propane after a few years. Dealer charges $120 for a "kit" and labor. I have a step-by-step writeup (with the help of others) that easily corrects it for $2. Basically, pull out the fridge and change a couple of easily-reached wires.
As to how big a TM you can tow, there are a few important variables like elevation, hills, mountain or desert driving etc etc. On the TM owners website, most of the "old heads" on there recommend a 5000-lb tow rating as minimum, however several flatlanders tow TMs just fine with 3500# rated TVs.
IMHO, a Q5 TDI will adequately tow any of the TMs using a WDH. A Touareg (like my Nissan Frontier) should reasonably manhandle the load.
It's all a question of what margin of safety you are comfortable with. I'd prefer 1000#, but I'm not worried about the Q5 suspension being the limiting factor. Usually, it's a gutless high-revving V6 engine that's the limiting factor (and the wear-and-tear that ensues).
If you ask your question on trailmanorowners.com, be prepared to be bombarded with responses! And as with any vehicle owner's forum, there are folks that B.S. (hint: toss out any response that starts with "I heard that...") and a good number of folks that have "been-there-done-that".
For just you and your child, I'd say take a look at the 2417 or 2619, equipped with a bike rack. Plenty for your purposes unless you'll have friends in the camper as well.
Sorry for the rambling post but you hit me right where I lay, towing a TM. Good luck with your search!
Another quick thought is try to find a good used TM vs getting soaked for a pricy new one. Easier said than done, but you can save some serious money and reliability is pretty good with TMs. Also, most everything that can go wrong has a fix written up on the website somewhere. Example: 2001ish-2006ish TMs (that would be me) had a Norcold N300 3-way fridge that wouldn't stay lit on propane after a few years. Dealer charges $120 for a "kit" and labor. I have a step-by-step writeup (with the help of others) that easily corrects it for $2. Basically, pull out the fridge and change a couple of easily-reached wires.
As to how big a TM you can tow, there are a few important variables like elevation, hills, mountain or desert driving etc etc. On the TM owners website, most of the "old heads" on there recommend a 5000-lb tow rating as minimum, however several flatlanders tow TMs just fine with 3500# rated TVs.
IMHO, a Q5 TDI will adequately tow any of the TMs using a WDH. A Touareg (like my Nissan Frontier) should reasonably manhandle the load.
It's all a question of what margin of safety you are comfortable with. I'd prefer 1000#, but I'm not worried about the Q5 suspension being the limiting factor. Usually, it's a gutless high-revving V6 engine that's the limiting factor (and the wear-and-tear that ensues).
If you ask your question on trailmanorowners.com, be prepared to be bombarded with responses! And as with any vehicle owner's forum, there are folks that B.S. (hint: toss out any response that starts with "I heard that...") and a good number of folks that have "been-there-done-that".
For just you and your child, I'd say take a look at the 2417 or 2619, equipped with a bike rack. Plenty for your purposes unless you'll have friends in the camper as well.
Sorry for the rambling post but you hit me right where I lay, towing a TM. Good luck with your search!
Cheers,
Chance
06-11-2013, 11:39 AM
#5
AudiWorld Senior Member
What is WDH??
Oohh it the bandage over the root cause, the excessive tongue load caused by the trailer axle location.
Any VAG owner knows that NO WDH on Q5, Touareg or Q7 as these are unibody vehicles without ladder frame and the trunk rear wall structure where hitch mounts is not designed to handle the torsion forces the WDH causes.
Oohh it the bandage over the root cause, the excessive tongue load caused by the trailer axle location.
Any VAG owner knows that NO WDH on Q5, Touareg or Q7 as these are unibody vehicles without ladder frame and the trunk rear wall structure where hitch mounts is not designed to handle the torsion forces the WDH causes.
Last edited by kleinbus; 06-11-2013 at 11:48 AM.
06-11-2013, 12:40 PM
#6
I've been following the replies to your question in trailmanorowners.com. Most all those guys are the so-called "old heads".
For the 2619: http://www.trailmanor.com/WebDocs/fo...line/2619.html
I noticed the link wasn't there either as of a few days ago. Not sure what they changed. (Maybe just the picture?)
And yes, the 2619 is nearly exactly like the 2720. Just replace the 2720's queen bed with a 48" double and remove a little storage in the lower back area (to account for "19" vs "20" part of equation). You'll see what I mean on TM's floorplan diagram.
I'm looking a little harder myself at the various TDIs now. Saw the 2014 Q5 TDI base will be $46,500 + dest + metallic paint. The Touareg TDI Sport lists for $48,320 including dest, so roughly the same ballpark (although the Q5 TDI includes a sunroof). Did see on Edmunds.com that VW is doing $2000 dealer cash on 2013 T-eg TDIs. Should be able to get T-eg for $2000 below invoice (which means dealer is still collecting their holdback). As for me, I'll probably sit tight and wait and see if ACNA renews their 2013MY 6% off MSRP deal for the 2014 vehicles...
06-11-2013, 12:54 PM
#7
What is WDH??
Oohh it the bandage over the root cause, the excessive tongue load caused by the trailer axle location.
Any VAG owner knows that NO WDH on Q5, Touareg or Q7 as these are unibody vehicles without ladder frame and the trunk rear wall structure where hitch mounts is not designed to handle the torsion forces the WDH causes.
Oohh it the bandage over the root cause, the excessive tongue load caused by the trailer axle location.
Any VAG owner knows that NO WDH on Q5, Touareg or Q7 as these are unibody vehicles without ladder frame and the trunk rear wall structure where hitch mounts is not designed to handle the torsion forces the WDH causes.
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06-12-2013, 12:42 PM
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Hi Gents,
In an effort to get some expert feedback from someone other than an Audi salesperson, I went to Just Answer and found a Audi Repair Shop owner that seems to have 20+ years working on Audis. I asked him to specifically go to the trailmanor.com website and consider the specifications for each of the trailers listed given the listed towing capacity of the Q5. I'm not advocating one way or the other here, just sharing a little insight that I didn't know about the computers.
"Ok, no problem.
So actually the Euro and US towing specs are near identical as 2000kg=4409lbs. So, any of those on that site you linked me to would be able to be towed by the TDI Q5. However, here's the most important issue. ONLY use the Audi hitch setup, and make sure it's either factory or dealer installed, as there are about 7 different computers on the car that have to be recoded to recognize the trailer.
The Q5 TDI will cope with towing perfectly well."
In an effort to get some expert feedback from someone other than an Audi salesperson, I went to Just Answer and found a Audi Repair Shop owner that seems to have 20+ years working on Audis. I asked him to specifically go to the trailmanor.com website and consider the specifications for each of the trailers listed given the listed towing capacity of the Q5. I'm not advocating one way or the other here, just sharing a little insight that I didn't know about the computers.
"Ok, no problem.
So actually the Euro and US towing specs are near identical as 2000kg=4409lbs. So, any of those on that site you linked me to would be able to be towed by the TDI Q5. However, here's the most important issue. ONLY use the Audi hitch setup, and make sure it's either factory or dealer installed, as there are about 7 different computers on the car that have to be recoded to recognize the trailer.
The Q5 TDI will cope with towing perfectly well."
06-12-2013, 12:47 PM
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Lemme know what you come up with on the Q5 TDI and Trailer combination. I've almost talked myself back into dropping quite a bit more for the Merc M350 BluTec. It's a lot more towing capacity, but also alot more money and less my style I think. I'm coming from an FX35 that I'm absolutely delighted with...other than the (no) tow rating 
Cheers,
Chance
Cheers,
Chance