kotis

I have a 2018 Q5 Premium Plus. The sound system seems muffled, but the volume is ok.

Where can I get recommendations on upgrading the speakers?
Is there a sub?
Is there an amp?
Can I get away with just upgrading speakers or some of the speakers?

MarkP888

I want to follow this as well. If anyone has the service manual pages, please post and I can help from there.

I have used DLS UP6 speakers in several past vehicles and thought they did an outstanding job leveling out the system.

My SQ5 has the B&O system, and even there the system leaves a lot to be desired.

Mark

GeriatricSQ5Guy

Agree that the B&O system leaves something to be desired. It's good, no doubt - but just doesn't have the feeling of a good aftermarket system. I'll bet it has paper speaker cones just like other OEM systems do.

There's a thread here somewhere where a guy changed out the subwoofer with a good improvement.

MarkP888

From what I have heard so far, I think their DSP processing is probably part of the issue, but there is only one way to really figure that out.

And you know what's funny is that paper cone speakers actually sound quite good if they are well made. They are more "lively" than their poly cone brethren. But in a car, I would expect to see a decent poly cone or something with a Kevlar weave to make a significant difference in sound. The tweeters in the B&O system are also simply too loud. This is such a common problem with car systems, almost across the board.

The best I have hard lately is the Harman Karden system in recent BMWs. I was able to dial those in pretty well and didn't feel I needed to replace anything. I still had to get a pretty wild EQ configured, but overall got the system sounding really neutral for all different genres of music.

I think starting with a light touch would be a good idea. The first thing I would try to do is knock down the tweeters a bit. This could be achieved one of two ways:

1. Remove the tweeter cover and attach some foam to the backside of the tweeter cover to reduce what makes it out into the car.
or
2. Find where the tweeter wires leave the amp (I think this is in the cargo area, left side panel), and put a couple of resistors in-line to reduce the volume. The latter has a subtle effect on the crossover frequency as well -- raises the frequency where the high pass filter starts to roll off. This can be good to reduce harshness in frequencies around 2-4kHz.

I think this simple adjustment to the tweeter level could make a huge difference in how the system can be dialed in (treble can be brought up without losing proper balance).

If that fails to get it across the finish line, then replacing the woofers with a very efficient and more bass-heavy woofer would be the next thing I would try. I would try to stick with the factory amp and crossovers (likely all in the same unit).

If anyone can find the wiring details, I can play around a bit more. I would personally like to insert resistors to lower the tweeter volume as my first step. Inexpensive, and should be easy to access without taking off any door panels, etc.

I have built quite a few speakers in my days and have studied speakers that I love, like B&W CDM 1NT (home) speakers. B&W has some neat tricks in their crossovers to get the sound they do. In particular, they carve out a section of the midrange where the crossovers basically leave a gaping hole in the spectrum. It helps to add detail by reducing the volume of that range. Never would have thought to try that on my own, but I saw it when I looked at the parts they use on their crossovers.

Mark

GeriatricSQ5Guy

I remember older home systems that had an adjustment called "presence" - you could sort of "fill the room" with sound. That's one thing I think the B&O system lacks - regardless of how I adjust the settings, it still seems like music comes from a point source, that being right in front of the driver from the dash. There's a setting, I think called Focus or something of the sort, but it doesn't sound right unless it's set to "focus" essentially on the console storage box.

Regardless of the small complaints, the B&O system is still pretty darn good. I still remember the old car systems of the '80s and even later that sounded terrible. In fact, the OEM in my 2009 C6 Corvette was awful until I spent about $2K to get a new, aftermarket, system installed. So we're talking higher end improvements here.

MarkP888

Very true. And that is why I recommend minor tweaks to systems like this rather than total system overhauls.

I have had some great systems in vehicles and I've made minor tweaks to help other factory systems become great.

One of the best I've owned was the monsoon OEM system in a 2000 Jetta VR6. Second would be the current BMW Harman systems. And the third would be the latest ELS systems in current production Acuras.

I have only had my 2018 SQ5 a short time but in time I plan to see what minor tweaks I can find to dial in they B&O System.

I found some information today. Enough to tell me where the amp is and which wires are for which speaker. Going to try to insert an in-line resister and see how that works.

Mark

GeriatricSQ5Guy

Hope you can keep us up to date as to how the tweeks work. I'm afraid to touch anything on the car because of all the computer systems and the danger of causing an incompatibility.

DrexLex

I agree the B&O is a very good system. My last car, a 2006 Lexus GS430 came with a Harman "Mark Levinson" system that was too bass-muddy for my taste, and no real controls to remedy it. That required more drastic effort, which paid off well.

Fast forward to the 2020 Q5, the Harman "B&O" system outclasses the old Levinson in tonal balance, clarity, sweetness, neutrality, ease of playing uncompressed files, and flexibility (e.g., separate bass and subwoofer controls). Yes, the subwoofer/bass impact is weaker than the trunk-mounted 10" sub in the Lexus, but that's OK for me. It's good enough that I don't feel compelled to re-engineer it.

Took a lot of experimenting to see what the Sound Effects controls actually did, and in case you want to try my settings, here they are:

Sound Effects:

• Focus > All
• Surround Level > Off (cleanest setting)
• 3D Effects > Medium or Low (has significant imaging and vocal tonal effect)

The bass and subwoofer settings, aside from being very subjective -- vary a lot depending on how loud one likes to listen, and road noise.

MarkP888

The settings that I have landed on are pretty much identical to what you just outlined. I always turn off the surround settings in every car I own. I want to hear the music as close to what was authored as possible.

I was able to find the service manual online. I am not going to post from it or link it as I am not sure of the copyright restrictions. But, I have been researching the system as well as sticking my ears at every speaker in the system to make sure I understand the design. There are a few key takeaways:
1. There are actually two totally different sets of speakers, related to surround and 3D effects (tweeters at least). The tweeters high up on the A-Panel should be OFF in the listening mode you have programmed, as they are for me too. They will turn ON when you turn on the surround modes.
2. There are two sets of midrange speakers that are ON all the time (3 actually if you count the center speakers). But if you look and listen, you will find one set of midrange components in the door panel, under the door handle, roughly, and another set up in the corners of the dash. Both source the same signal from the amp.
3. From the amp, there is a single signal that is coming out for each pair of mids and tweeters. There is likely a crossover in the door, or some basic crossover components attached to each component (this is very common with this level of system). So this single feed out of the amp (per corner of the car) powers the lower tweeter, and both midrange speakers. I am completely focused on the front of the vehicle at the moment. That may be where the investigation starts and ends for me.

So my specific complaints about the B&O system would be as follows:
1. With the settings set flat -- (meaning Treble, Bass, and Sub control settings in the middle, as well as Surround and 3D processing OFF, and fader/balance set centered, Focus set to ALL) -- the system is sounds very thin and the highs are too harsh and loud.
2. Attempting to compensate for #1 but either lowering the treble or increasing the bass, or both does not yield a better result.

So the takeaway for me is that there is just too much juice going out to the mids and tweeters relative to the woofers. Very easy to fix by adding resisters inline, completely modified right there at the amp. Yes you have to identify and cut a few wires, but it is completely reversable and easy for anyone comfortable using a soldering iron (probably everyone reading this).

I identified the output wires from the amp and clipped one and confirmed that tweeter and both mids on that side shut off. (I did this with the car off and the harness unplugged from the amp, btw).

I had to order the resisters I want, and I ordered them in 3 different sizes (5ohm, 10ohm, 15ohm), since I don't know yet what will be the best fit. I will report back once I have tried this. I think it will be a pretty dramatic improvement, and again, very easy and also very inexpensive. It should be less than $50 in parts, all in.

Mark

DrexLex

Nice sleuthing there, Mark.
Yes, those "spatial effects" do often cloud the sound. But as you know it's very difficult to project a balanced stereo image where the speakers are so asymmetrically disposed -- particularly when there's L and R seat occupants. I used the Alpine PXA-H700 Pro Logic II processor with an added center speaker 20 years ago to good effect. So I was happy to see a center speaker in the Q5 being utilized more sensibly (subtly) than the Logic7 system in the Lexus.

There is an informative resource at AudiWorld posted here. @Bobby Kinstle did a great job dissecting his B&O system.

For those who have the erWin manuals, see section 44 of the Wiring Diagrams (pps 346-351 of the PDF) for the B&O system. A separate document, Wiring Component Locations, has all the B&O components mapped out.

The diagrams do not show any crossover components, only junctions, so I suspect they are integral to the particular drivers as you mentioned.

Looking forward to hearing about the results.