Help!! Negotiating question for my 2011 Q
09-17-2010, 12:32 PM
#11
AudiWorld Expert
This is a good offer - and does not effect the warranty as the dealer has to accept the car (service and sales are always separate functions anyway
09-17-2010, 01:30 PM
#12
AudiWorld Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 257
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am buying a Q5 tomorrow (ordered in July) I got the 6% supplier discount and the 1.5% Loyalty discount. No questions or problems. I did not try or plan to ask for anymore off as this is a fantastic deal IMHO.
I also plan to get the ACNA(Audi Club North America) US$500 discount.
You need to find a better dealer.
I also plan to get the ACNA(Audi Club North America) US$500 discount.
You need to find a better dealer.
Thanks!!!
09-17-2010, 01:45 PM
#13
AudiWorld Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: florida
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the loyalty is a dollar amount specific to models. the a6, for instance, has more loyalty back than an a3.
I thought I already replied this, but if what OP says is true, you should be able to get loyalty and supplier discounts.
if your dealer won't do it, I will.
the acna discount is pretty cool. i had forgotten about that.
I thought I already replied this, but if what OP says is true, you should be able to get loyalty and supplier discounts.
if your dealer won't do it, I will.
the acna discount is pretty cool. i had forgotten about that.
09-17-2010, 01:59 PM
#14
AudiWorld Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 257
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Since I've draw a few folks into the conversation, here are the specifics... on my not yet finalized deal.
I know for fact the invoice price is $60,757 with all fees, audicare, etc.
Why is My Deal price lower?
1. The Dealer discount ($2,989) was given before I even mentioned any incentives or program. It was given as an addition to the Loyalty, which we both agreed on
2. From the information I gathered (and would love to validated or invalidate):
a. The Loyalty is not out of pocket for the dealer
b. The Supplier discount is split 50-50 (from my research)
c. I have no idea what "promotion" or "special" the dealer used to quote me the $2,989 discount, but I think it is a fair assumption that they are not "losing" all of that money... (agree?)
The $2,989 is the point of contention... where they just being nice and giving that off? and that is why they backed away from it once I wanted to add on the supplier program? or was it a regional promo that they will get some money back on.....??? No way to know that... but $3 grand is $3 grand. especially if its a promo - cause I would like a piece of it!
So you can see, even though the plain vanilla calcs would show a loss against invoice, if you add back in the split for supplier and an assumed split for the original dealer discount, the price is really above invoice... Of course I may loosen on the "dealer" #, but that is what they through out... so :-)
Whether or not the dealer makes anything on Audicare, I don't care.
Thoughts, invalidation on my logic?
BTW, I'm not trying to be a jerk to the dealer... I understand the principles of making a profit .. just want to make sure that we are playing the game fairly :-)
I know for fact the invoice price is $60,757 with all fees, audicare, etc.
Why is My Deal price lower?
1. The Dealer discount ($2,989) was given before I even mentioned any incentives or program. It was given as an addition to the Loyalty, which we both agreed on
2. From the information I gathered (and would love to validated or invalidate):
a. The Loyalty is not out of pocket for the dealer
b. The Supplier discount is split 50-50 (from my research)
c. I have no idea what "promotion" or "special" the dealer used to quote me the $2,989 discount, but I think it is a fair assumption that they are not "losing" all of that money... (agree?)
The $2,989 is the point of contention... where they just being nice and giving that off? and that is why they backed away from it once I wanted to add on the supplier program? or was it a regional promo that they will get some money back on.....??? No way to know that... but $3 grand is $3 grand. especially if its a promo - cause I would like a piece of it!
So you can see, even though the plain vanilla calcs would show a loss against invoice, if you add back in the split for supplier and an assumed split for the original dealer discount, the price is really above invoice... Of course I may loosen on the "dealer" #, but that is what they through out... so :-)
Whether or not the dealer makes anything on Audicare, I don't care.
Thoughts, invalidation on my logic?
BTW, I'm not trying to be a jerk to the dealer... I understand the principles of making a profit .. just want to make sure that we are playing the game fairly :-)
09-17-2010, 03:05 PM
#15
AudiWorld Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: florida
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There's $3800 markup between invoice and MSRP. Their original discount shows them holding $810 (roughly) profit. There is no split or anything here, this is a real discount.
So they are discounting the car 2989 and giving you loyalty (1000) and supplier (3800) for a total discount of 7789. But they are paying only $5889 towards you deal. So they are 2000 below invoice.
Check to see if they are holding a point or 2 on the rate. if not, that sales manager is about to get fired. it's a great deal.
buy rate for 60 mos is around 3 percent with over 700 credit.
So they are discounting the car 2989 and giving you loyalty (1000) and supplier (3800) for a total discount of 7789. But they are paying only $5889 towards you deal. So they are 2000 below invoice.
Check to see if they are holding a point or 2 on the rate. if not, that sales manager is about to get fired. it's a great deal.
buy rate for 60 mos is around 3 percent with over 700 credit.
09-17-2010, 05:16 PM
#16
AudiWorld Senior Member
Here's how I'd look at it:
1) invoice is roughly 6% off MSRP
2) the $2,989 dealer offered initially is 4.7% off MSRP, meaning he'd make 1.3% or about $823.
3) the supplier discount is a 50/50 split. in this case, the supplier discount is $3,800 of which the dealer would kick in 3% ($1,900) and AoA would kick in another $1,900 (reimbursed to dealer).
4) By asking the dealer to honor the $2,989 and kick in another 3% ($1,900) under the supplier program (excluding the 3% from AoA), you're basically asking them to sell the car for about $1,100 under invoice.
5) Since they were willing to take only an $823 profit originally (see #2), then I think it'd be fair for them to: a) honor the supplier discount, meaning they'd contribute $1,900 and AoA would contribute $1,900 = $3,800 off MSRP; b) honor the loyalty $1k which costs them nothing (reimbursed by AoA), and c) take ANOTHER $1,089 off ($2,989 orig offer - $1,900 they'd give under supplier program anyway).
6) This way, their "out of pocket" is still the same as the original offer, plus you get another $1,900 kicked in by AoA (their 3% of the supplier program money).
Hope that makes sense...GOOD LUCK!
1) invoice is roughly 6% off MSRP
2) the $2,989 dealer offered initially is 4.7% off MSRP, meaning he'd make 1.3% or about $823.
3) the supplier discount is a 50/50 split. in this case, the supplier discount is $3,800 of which the dealer would kick in 3% ($1,900) and AoA would kick in another $1,900 (reimbursed to dealer).
4) By asking the dealer to honor the $2,989 and kick in another 3% ($1,900) under the supplier program (excluding the 3% from AoA), you're basically asking them to sell the car for about $1,100 under invoice.
5) Since they were willing to take only an $823 profit originally (see #2), then I think it'd be fair for them to: a) honor the supplier discount, meaning they'd contribute $1,900 and AoA would contribute $1,900 = $3,800 off MSRP; b) honor the loyalty $1k which costs them nothing (reimbursed by AoA), and c) take ANOTHER $1,089 off ($2,989 orig offer - $1,900 they'd give under supplier program anyway).
6) This way, their "out of pocket" is still the same as the original offer, plus you get another $1,900 kicked in by AoA (their 3% of the supplier program money).
Hope that makes sense...GOOD LUCK!
Last edited by audi40; 09-17-2010 at 05:19 PM.
09-17-2010, 06:00 PM
#17
AudiWorld Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: florida
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No, you have it wrong. The math here is simple.
63,350
-2989 (dealer contribution)
-1900 (Dealer half of supplier)
-1900 (AOA suppier)
-1000 (loyalty)
----------------------
55,561 (selling price after incentives)
Now, if you look at the dealer contribution on your dealer, it's 4889. Markup was only 3801. So the dealer is 1088 behind invoice, into holdback. on a car with 2900 dollars free money. From a dealer's perspective, this is a travesty of justice. You should do the right thing and let this person keep his job by giving back some of this money.
Don't you see that they're giving back all the money to you?! Look at the first line on dealer contribution. They throw the 89 in there to mess with your head. it'll go away with tag fees or something.
63,350
-2989 (dealer contribution)
-1900 (Dealer half of supplier)
-1900 (AOA suppier)
-1000 (loyalty)
----------------------
55,561 (selling price after incentives)
Now, if you look at the dealer contribution on your dealer, it's 4889. Markup was only 3801. So the dealer is 1088 behind invoice, into holdback. on a car with 2900 dollars free money. From a dealer's perspective, this is a travesty of justice. You should do the right thing and let this person keep his job by giving back some of this money.
Don't you see that they're giving back all the money to you?! Look at the first line on dealer contribution. They throw the 89 in there to mess with your head. it'll go away with tag fees or something.
09-17-2010, 06:29 PM
#18
AudiWorld Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 257
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just to make sure we are all on the same page... the My Deal is what I have been keeping score with... While he offered the $2989 Dealer contribution, AFTER I brought in the Supplier program discount, he wanted to back away from that saying that it was only one or the other. While I am not expecting I should get it all, I didn't balk that it should be one or the other...
In fact I called AoA and they said that the Supplier program DOES NOT negate any local / dealer incentives, so from their perspective, I should get both...
The dilema for me in negotiating is how strong should I play the push on the $2989 that they now want to take away...
Make sense?
Thanks for the discussion, learning a lot!
In fact I called AoA and they said that the Supplier program DOES NOT negate any local / dealer incentives, so from their perspective, I should get both...
The dilema for me in negotiating is how strong should I play the push on the $2989 that they now want to take away...
Make sense?
Thanks for the discussion, learning a lot!
09-17-2010, 06:36 PM
#19
AudiWorld Senior Member
09-17-2010, 07:00 PM
#20
AudiWorld Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: florida
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
well, how bout this. logically, it doesn't make sense. the supplier program is invoice. they were giving you a discount from MSRP. Supplier program overrides any discount from MSRP because it starts at invoice.
audi40 is right. sorry, i was dazzled by your rounding.
If audi really pays 1900 for supplier, it might be fair to ask for another thousand in addition to supplier and loyalty. They should take that deal if they already offered you 2900 off. (as per #5).
audi40 is right. sorry, i was dazzled by your rounding.
If audi really pays 1900 for supplier, it might be fair to ask for another thousand in addition to supplier and loyalty. They should take that deal if they already offered you 2900 off. (as per #5).