Dealer fraud with financing
#1
AudiWorld Junior Member
Thread Starter
Dealer fraud with financing
Hi all - have been reading this site for a while now, but this is my first post. I am curious to hear your all's thoughts on a fraud issue I'm having with my dealer.
This happened after I purchased my 2018 Q7 from a dealer in Northern Virginia in September of last year. Given my expat status, it took them about 2 weeks to finalize the paperwork, supposedly due to Audi Financial Services needing more time. During that time I reached out several times to both the sales rep I dealt with as well as the Finance Manager, but was told that due to consumer finance laws they couldn't discuss anything on the phone, and the rep said all F&I stuff had to be handled by the Finance Manager. Finally, after 2 weeks of me driving around in a car I hadn't paid for, we finally sorted out the paperwork. I took Audi Care and 10-year extended warranty but declined everything else. I also negotiated another 500 dollar discount given it took them 2 weeks to finalize everything and I had shopped around for cheaper extended warranties.
Fast forward to February of this year, and when checking something on the car loan I noticed that the amounts were off vs. what was on the original paperwork. I called Audi Financial Services who sent me the paperwork they received from the dealer. I noticed three things:
I had contacted the police about this as well and even though in Virginia forgery is a felony, they didn't really care and told me to take it up with the dealer directly. I still haven't decided what to do next. While technically they are willing to reimburse the difference, they did profit on this fraudulent action, and I'm sure I'm not the first customer they have done this with!
Anybody else experience something like this? Any advice on how to handle this?
This happened after I purchased my 2018 Q7 from a dealer in Northern Virginia in September of last year. Given my expat status, it took them about 2 weeks to finalize the paperwork, supposedly due to Audi Financial Services needing more time. During that time I reached out several times to both the sales rep I dealt with as well as the Finance Manager, but was told that due to consumer finance laws they couldn't discuss anything on the phone, and the rep said all F&I stuff had to be handled by the Finance Manager. Finally, after 2 weeks of me driving around in a car I hadn't paid for, we finally sorted out the paperwork. I took Audi Care and 10-year extended warranty but declined everything else. I also negotiated another 500 dollar discount given it took them 2 weeks to finalize everything and I had shopped around for cheaper extended warranties.
Fast forward to February of this year, and when checking something on the car loan I noticed that the amounts were off vs. what was on the original paperwork. I called Audi Financial Services who sent me the paperwork they received from the dealer. I noticed three things:
- They had added some insurance package, described as just "AWS DENT", for 1065 USD (increasing my original balance by the same amount)
- They reduced the finance rate by 0.5%, so the monthly payment was the same as on my original paperwork (which is why it took me so long to notice)
- They forged my signature on the paperwork
I had contacted the police about this as well and even though in Virginia forgery is a felony, they didn't really care and told me to take it up with the dealer directly. I still haven't decided what to do next. While technically they are willing to reimburse the difference, they did profit on this fraudulent action, and I'm sure I'm not the first customer they have done this with!
Anybody else experience something like this? Any advice on how to handle this?
#2
AudiWorld Member
Haven't experienced anything of the sort and can understand how frustrating it is and don't have any advice on what to do.
Police already said they won't do anything so you don't have any legal action from them. You may see what your lawyer says but that will just cost you time and money.
Question though, what would you like to happen to make it feel right?
Police already said they won't do anything so you don't have any legal action from them. You may see what your lawyer says but that will just cost you time and money.
Question though, what would you like to happen to make it feel right?
#4
AudiWorld Senior Member
There are obviously two things going on here:
The issue with the signature is just flat out wrong and should NEVER have happened.
In regards to the financial aspect of the deal, you - if I got this right - are actually better now because you got that insurance for free.
The issue with the signature is just flat out wrong and should NEVER have happened.
In regards to the financial aspect of the deal, you - if I got this right - are actually better now because you got that insurance for free.
#5
The question is what do you want? The cops aren't going to arrest anyone just because your signature was forged. Do you want to return the car or cancel the deal?
Imo, figure out what you want and lawyer up. Just complaining about sleazy dealer won't solve anything unless you're really pissed off about something.
Imo, figure out what you want and lawyer up. Just complaining about sleazy dealer won't solve anything unless you're really pissed off about something.
#6
File a police report, hire a lawyer and let them do the rest. Most likely it will require hiring a professional to determine the forgery is a fake. Forgery is a felony in all 50 states. If the dealer changed some numbers before the deal or skimped on an option, that is one thing, but to actually put your legal signature on a document I wound pounce. No mercy in those situations. Don't take this the wrong way, but in my life I have never heard of a dealer letting a customer drive off a car without the final paperwork being signed.
#7
AudiWorld Junior Member
Thread Starter
The question is what do you want? The cops aren't going to arrest anyone just because your signature was forged. Do you want to return the car or cancel the deal?
Imo, figure out what you want and lawyer up. Just complaining about sleazy dealer won't solve anything unless you're really pissed off about something.
Imo, figure out what you want and lawyer up. Just complaining about sleazy dealer won't solve anything unless you're really pissed off about something.
I did speak to my lawyer and his perspective was that there are a few legal avenues to pursue, but you're looking at easily 5 to 10k of legal fees with no guarantee the judge would award full reimbursement of legal fees even when the dealer is found guilty. My lawyer did recommend filing a complaint with the Virginia Dealer Board, which manages dealer licenses in the state. I haven't done that yet but am considering it. I'm also considering going back to the police and make them file a report for me, given the forgery.
I am frankly most shocked by Audi North America's response. Besides calling their customer support number, is there any other avenue to get some traction on this with them?
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#8
AudiWorld Junior Member
Thread Starter
File a police report, hire a lawyer and let them do the rest. Most likely it will require hiring a professional to determine the forgery is a fake. Forgery is a felony in all 50 states. If the dealer changed some numbers before the deal or skimped on an option, that is one thing, but to actually put your legal signature on a document I wound pounce. No mercy in those situations. Don't take this the wrong way, but in my life I have never heard of a dealer letting a customer drive off a car without the final paperwork being signed.
#9
Do both of these:
1. Google your state attorney general and get a hold of their office and explain what happened; and
2. Google the state prosecutor for the county in which the dealer is located and explain what happened.
See if these folks can help you out. Forgery on consumer finance documents is a big deal.
1. Google your state attorney general and get a hold of their office and explain what happened; and
2. Google the state prosecutor for the county in which the dealer is located and explain what happened.
See if these folks can help you out. Forgery on consumer finance documents is a big deal.
#10
AudiWorld Member
When dealers mark up interest rate beyond what Audi financial allows them, AFS rejects the paperwork. That’s probably what happened in your case. Then dealer has two options, being honest with the customer and refund the extra money or make excuses and correct the rate then add some junk package to again make money.