WRC Group B history question: It is rumored that Audi was working on 1000HP successor to the S1, but
11-16-2005, 07:01 AM
#21
Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,733
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not saying they raced it. All I'm saying is a 1000bhp motor had been built, tested by drivers...
and deemed undriveable.
I know for a fact that the IMSA 90 did NOT use pump gas. Jo Hoppen even went far enough as to keep the race fuel at near friged tempratures, I think because the gas would then take up less space, causing less frequent/quicker fuel pit stops.
I know for a fact that the IMSA 90 did NOT use pump gas. Jo Hoppen even went far enough as to keep the race fuel at near friged tempratures, I think because the gas would then take up less space, causing less frequent/quicker fuel pit stops.
11-16-2005, 07:39 AM
#22
AudiWorld Super User
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 8,428
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Lancia
did the turbo and supercharger but I was less power than the Audi.
It was done that way for Lag.
But I think it was not very promising for street cars due to the severe amount of parasitic loss.
It was done that way for Lag.
But I think it was not very promising for street cars due to the severe amount of parasitic loss.
11-16-2005, 07:44 AM
#23
AudiWorld Super User
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 8,428
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: I'm not saying they raced it. All I'm saying is a 1000bhp motor had been built, tested by driver
But see, therein lies the secret. If you start talking 100% toluene or even 75% toluene then its a whole different ballgame. With 100 octane its going to be hard (not impossible) to do with a high flow head using solid lifters and very good cooling. The IMSA head is specifically that. Tremendous cross-flow cooling, Very high flow and made to rev to 10K. With all those parameters and very high octane fuel I can see about 300-350 hp/liter sustained. Using 84% toluene or some alcohol mix I can see 1000hp just by cranking up the boost.
11-16-2005, 08:06 AM
#24
AudiWorld Super User
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 13,972
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
James, those figures are VERY reachable...
Lest we forget, BMW's mid-'80s F1 engine was puting out 1K to 1200 hp in qualifyng trim, from a 1.5 liter with a honkin' big turbo on it. Gurney did the same thing in the early '90s with the Toyota motor in his GTP cars. They were 1.8 liter engines, and were getting somewhere north of 800 hp in race trim. Group B was basically an "unlimited" catagory. Hell, even the Ford RS200 was pumped up to over 800 hp. I don't think 1000 or even 1200 hp, in limited quantities (ala CART), would out of the realm of Audi's capability.
11-16-2005, 08:40 AM
#25
AudiWorld Member
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 237
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nobody's saying they couldn't or didn't build it...
but I'm with James on this. If they did build the thing, there's little wonder why it was never used. The S1 had rather twitchy handling, and more power (think BIG turbo kick) wouldn't help. It would also be a major undertaking to make it reliable. Rally racing puts some special demands on motors that circuit racing just doesn't have.
By the closing years of Group B, Audi had seen the writing on the wall WRT the limitations of their cars. They had been compensating with progressive power increases, so maybe they were hoping to have the HP bragging rights, if not the titles.
By the closing years of Group B, Audi had seen the writing on the wall WRT the limitations of their cars. They had been compensating with progressive power increases, so maybe they were hoping to have the HP bragging rights, if not the titles.
11-16-2005, 11:25 AM
#26
AudiWorld Super User
The Delta S4 had it, and VW does it with the new TSI engines (edited)
There was a street version of the Delta S4. The big problem was the changeover from supercharger to turbocharger and complexity of the controls. On the Lancias, they used a system solenoids and valves to switch between the two systems. The new engine management systems make it possible to seamlessly transition from supercharger to turbocharger. VW is getting performance from a 1.4l TSI comparable to much larger engines.
One reason that I can think of that would have kept Audi from doing it was that added weight. They went to great pains to lighten up the front end on the quattro for handling. Adding the weight of the supercharger and plumbing would have taken them the wrong way.
From what I was told, power was not an issue with the quattros. They had plenty. The problem was handling.
One reason that I can think of that would have kept Audi from doing it was that added weight. They went to great pains to lighten up the front end on the quattro for handling. Adding the weight of the supercharger and plumbing would have taken them the wrong way.
From what I was told, power was not an issue with the quattros. They had plenty. The problem was handling.
11-17-2005, 03:49 AM
#30
Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,733
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No, but I know my friend got it off the "Audi20V_Kruemmer" group on yahoo.
Here's another pic, of the two turbos, titled, Factory SPQ Biturbo.
<img src="http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/YumyJager/auto/SPQ_biturbos.jpg">
Could this have been the 1000bhp project?
<img src="http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/YumyJager/auto/SPQ_biturbos.jpg">
Could this have been the 1000bhp project?