abwc

> I find it strange that you will not simply go back and forth with people here in an honest discussion

Who are you, and what have you done with daveak05 ?!

daveak05

be nice now awbc.

After all, was it not you who started your first 2 posts to me with the words "let me dumb things down for you" and "open mouth: insert foot". Now a ax ya!

abwc

I only did that because I felt like you went into attack mode first, when I was just trying to have a mature back-and-forth discussion.

I made three comments in that post:

> 1. M3 driver is a bit sloppy, while the RS4 driver is noticeably smoother.

> 2. I'm surprised that the RS4 does not gain more ground under power on the straights.

> 3. M3 driver does not blip for downshifts (you and I know SMG works better if you do, but this truth has somehow escaped universal attention)

Comments #1 and #3 were intended to rag on the M3 driver for not being a better driver. These two comments had NOTHING to do with the RS4 or the outcome of the contest. They were simple, isolated observations about driving technique, rather than insinuiations about one brand of car over the other.

Comment #2 was meant to say, again as an isolated observation, that I would have expected the RS4 go pull away more than it did.

Don't forget that I own both of these cars. I KNOW how much stronger the RS4 is, so when I first saw the video, my impressions were:

1. RS4 is TOYING with M3, giving the M3 a few laps in the spotlight

2. Once RS4 guy decided that it was time to pass, he did at will, and then left him in the dust.


But Leo's comment challenged my impression, so I went back and took another look. It wasn't until then that I realized the time it took to go through the transition between following to leading, and then to lead building, was much longer and drawn-out than I had remembered on my first viewing.

So that's why I said "upon further review...".

The M3 scrabbled its way into a closer fight, for a time, than I expected.

Maybe it could have been closer still, if the driver were more seasoned with the car ? Who knows ? Interesting speculation, that's all.

Not for one second did I expect that the whole thing would turn into a rage over M3 vs. RS4.

Your comments that followed indicated that you took my comments a different way, as if I were saying "aw, the race was a mistrial because the M3 driver sucked, and a RealDriver would have trounced the RS4."

I never said that, nor do I see that in re-reading my posts again now.

The other thread fragments that spun off of this all had the same disconnect. Everything I said came from a place of "gee, isn't all this quite interesting ?", whereas your reaction (and those of others, too) was like "HEY, WHO ARE YOU TO CALL MY BABY UGLY ?"

Please accept my apology for being incendiary (it wasn't necessary, and probably didn't help establish the healthy dialog I was seeking), but please also understand that not every person who makes a comment that includes the letters "BMW" is trying to slam Audi, and that not every comment that isn't praise-the-lord positive about one or the other is meant to be negative.

I am a driving instructor for the BMW Club, I have race-winning experience in the Skip Barber Amateur Racing Series (Western Division), and I own both of these cars, so I think that puts me in a somewhat "special" position when it comes to evaluating each, and in interpreting the video where they are being stressed to their limits.


P.S. I had hoped to avoid the risk of appearing to brag about my qualifications, so I did not, and have never mentioned them here before, hoping instead that my word choice, insights, and descriptions would speak for themselves. As that strategy appears not to be having the desired effect, I reveal them now... it is futile to repeat the same strategy over and over and expecting a different result-- try something different !

daveak05

and all I said in my first subject line was "that's right, must have been the driver, LOL..."

I don't think it was quite as innocent as you are now portaying(in which I certainly share the blame), but I acknowldege everything in this post as fundamentally true...w/o actually going back and reading each post.

I don't know about you, but I take all this as good natured needling, even if it doesn't always appear that way. It is the internet after all.

There are a few special cases that I don't view in this way. They have a history of doing this. That is to say that they will never allow themselves to get to the point where the discussion can become real and candid. When I call them on it, they don't like it, and then they slip and let their true colors show.

343Bhp

I guess not many of you have been on a circuit.

If I had a guy taking the inside line on a turn going to the right, I would do the following:

Let him take the inside line. Stay very wide, almost out of road. Brake very late to the left of the guy taking the inside line. Turn in very late & get some massive momentum on corner exit due to taking a very wide line & making the corner "straighter" than the other guy, which allows you to go WOT long before him due to the line you took.

The guy taking the inside line is taking a very sharp angle. Especially in a rear driver he can't appply full throttle early from the inside (actually even in a 4WD he can't apply full throttle early from such a sharp angle or he is just gonna'wash wide). He is gonna' turn in, open the wheel & ease it out on the exit with a gentle transition to WOT.

Now the RS4, had the advantage by having the wider entry into the corner & hence should have had big momentum on exit & flew right by the M3 or at least got side by side down the straight.

But he didn't. Why?

Only reason I can think of is the M3 taking the inside line & then parking it on the apex & hence forcing the RS4 to lift & lose all momentum. But lucky for us we footage from all angles. If you look at the footage as they go into turn 1, you will see the RS4 understeer very far away from the M3. Nowhere near close to his rear. The RS4 driver kept it buried & still didn't make an impression on the M3.

It seems the M3's tyres started to go in the second half of the race. That is customary in most of BEst Motoring's videos for the heavier RWD road cars to start exhibiting tyre fatigue in the 2nd half of the race. Road tyres aren't designed to handle the weight of heavy-ish cars for more than a few laps. I assume the brakes as well.

A 4WD car would obviously ease the tractive load on corner exit by having 4 tyres to share the work & hence exhibit less tyre fade. All credit for the RS4 then.

DRoOpY

wow ur a genius