Piggy Piggy Oink Oink Pulls out the Win! Audi RS4 vs BMW M3 vs Cadillac CTS-V vs Fuga
12-14-2006, 08:09 PM
#64
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If I can and did run a seasoned pro down in his M3 on my first track day......
I can only attribute it to the fact that I suck and the RS4 is an incredible car. BETTER than the M3, with any driver in it.<ul><li><a href="https://forums.audiworld.com/rs4b7/msgs/30288.phtml">https://forums.audiworld.com/rs4b7/msgs/30288.phtml</a</li></ul>
12-14-2006, 08:22 PM
#65
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I'm saying that if you switched the RS4 driver with the M3 driver,
The problem with being all over the place would follow the driver, not the car. S4V8RCR said as much first thing this morning.
Why, oh why do you guys think that every sentence with M3 in it is anti-RS4 ?
I am, in effect, SUPPORTING the idea that the RS4 is a super-refined drive.
You guys have the appearance of suggesting that M3s are all over the place by definition. This is false. They are more precise in this regard, which is to say they translate driver inputs more precisely.
If those inputs are all over the place, so too will the car be.
If those inputs are precise, so too will the car be.
Ergo: "Driver Difference"
The fact that the M3 driver looks all over the place is testament to two things: 1) his driving could use some polish, and 2) he's being stressed to his limits trying to keep up with the RS4.
If the drivers were switched, I think you'd see a different picture than the one you painted in the previous posts (dxben: regarding the appearance of life and death struggle with wheel inputs, as if this were the nature of the car; daveak05: insinuating that I am suggesting the M3 could have won with the right driver).
I'm saying the RS4 driver could have demonstrated better car control in the M3 throughout the lap than original M3 guy did.
Switching cars would have narrowed the gap.
Driver Difference.
That's it.
Why, oh why do you guys think that every sentence with M3 in it is anti-RS4 ?
I am, in effect, SUPPORTING the idea that the RS4 is a super-refined drive.
You guys have the appearance of suggesting that M3s are all over the place by definition. This is false. They are more precise in this regard, which is to say they translate driver inputs more precisely.
If those inputs are all over the place, so too will the car be.
If those inputs are precise, so too will the car be.
Ergo: "Driver Difference"
The fact that the M3 driver looks all over the place is testament to two things: 1) his driving could use some polish, and 2) he's being stressed to his limits trying to keep up with the RS4.
If the drivers were switched, I think you'd see a different picture than the one you painted in the previous posts (dxben: regarding the appearance of life and death struggle with wheel inputs, as if this were the nature of the car; daveak05: insinuating that I am suggesting the M3 could have won with the right driver).
I'm saying the RS4 driver could have demonstrated better car control in the M3 throughout the lap than original M3 guy did.
Switching cars would have narrowed the gap.
Driver Difference.
That's it.
12-14-2006, 08:31 PM
#67
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Good job, I'll give you a passing grade, lol. Answers inside...
A-6 = Intruder
EA-6B = Prowler
A-7 = Corsair
A-10 = Thunderbolt II or Warthog or Hog
A-12 = Avenger II
B-1 = Lancer
B-2 = Spirit
B-52 = Stratofortress
XB-70 = Valkyrie (never made it. One colided with a chase aircraft and crashed)
C-5 = Galaxy
C-17 = Glodemaster III
C-130 = Hercules
C-141 = Starlifter
F-4 = Phantom
F-5 = Freedom Fighter or Tiger
F-14 = Tomcat
F-14D = Super Tomcat (later version)
F-15 = Eagle or Strike Eagle (later model)
F-16 = Fighting Falcon or Viper (nickname)
F-18 = Hornet
F-18E/F = *Super Hornet* (latest version) <b>see note</b>
F-20 = Tigershark
F-22 = Raptor
F-35 = Lightning II
F-101 = Voodoo
F-102 = Delta Dagger
F-104 = Starfighter
F-105 = Thunderchief
F-106 = Delta Dart
F-117 = Nighthawk
P-3 = Orion
S-3 = Viking
<b>Note:</b> The Super Hornet is a new aircraft. It is 25% bigger than the original F-18.
EA-6B = Prowler
A-7 = Corsair
A-10 = Thunderbolt II or Warthog or Hog
A-12 = Avenger II
B-1 = Lancer
B-2 = Spirit
B-52 = Stratofortress
XB-70 = Valkyrie (never made it. One colided with a chase aircraft and crashed)
C-5 = Galaxy
C-17 = Glodemaster III
C-130 = Hercules
C-141 = Starlifter
F-4 = Phantom
F-5 = Freedom Fighter or Tiger
F-14 = Tomcat
F-14D = Super Tomcat (later version)
F-15 = Eagle or Strike Eagle (later model)
F-16 = Fighting Falcon or Viper (nickname)
F-18 = Hornet
F-18E/F = *Super Hornet* (latest version) <b>see note</b>
F-20 = Tigershark
F-22 = Raptor
F-35 = Lightning II
F-101 = Voodoo
F-102 = Delta Dagger
F-104 = Starfighter
F-105 = Thunderchief
F-106 = Delta Dart
F-117 = Nighthawk
P-3 = Orion
S-3 = Viking
<b>Note:</b> The Super Hornet is a new aircraft. It is 25% bigger than the original F-18.
12-14-2006, 08:31 PM
#68
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Re: I'm saying that if you switched the RS4 driver with the M3 driver,
LOL...on your "why oh why" comment.
Still, you don't KNOW if it was the car that influenced the driver or the driver being all over the place on his own.
Look, I keep hearing new excuses. Anything to somehow make the undeniable fact that the RS4 beat the M3 in this race, an anomoly. It just aint so, face it.
I too would have thought that the M3 would have handled with more ease around that track. My explanation? He was pushing too hard because the more powerful and grippy RS4 was breathing down his neck after the M3 was, curiosly, given pole position at the start. How do you explain that? Were they giving the M3 an unfair handicap to make the race more even, give it a chance? Seems like the idea to me.
Still, you don't KNOW if it was the car that influenced the driver or the driver being all over the place on his own.
Look, I keep hearing new excuses. Anything to somehow make the undeniable fact that the RS4 beat the M3 in this race, an anomoly. It just aint so, face it.
I too would have thought that the M3 would have handled with more ease around that track. My explanation? He was pushing too hard because the more powerful and grippy RS4 was breathing down his neck after the M3 was, curiosly, given pole position at the start. How do you explain that? Were they giving the M3 an unfair handicap to make the race more even, give it a chance? Seems like the idea to me.
12-14-2006, 08:33 PM
#69
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Or, you could say:
I can only attribute it to the fact that I, as an amateur, ran-down a seasoned pro in an M3 because my car's power and forgiveness were able equalize our lap times.
The RS4, driven with reasonable skill, is faster than the M3. As driver skill increases, so too does the advantage it has over the M3.
The RS4, driven with reasonable skill, is faster than the M3. As driver skill increases, so too does the advantage it has over the M3.
12-14-2006, 08:36 PM
#70
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My God a breakthrough!!!
You actually said the RS4 is faster than an M3. Hallelujah! We now have something to go with here.
I suspect that when the next M3 comes out, a whole different ballgame.
I suspect that when the next M3 comes out, a whole different ballgame.