outofca

In my twelve years living in the SF Bay Area I met countless idiots who drove both the B5 S4 and the E46 M3 who couldn't even tell you the number of cylinders or the displacement of the engine under the hood. Shoot, I wonder how some of them even figured out how to fill up the gas tank.

Hoots

I was at an SCCA Solo event a few weeks ago and this guy brought out his M3 with the SMG shift package. By far he had the most trouble putting down the power and keeping the car in line on the autocross course. He had at least two huge spins on every pass. It was dramatic and fun to watch all the smoke roll off his tires buy that is not the goal. I'm sure the 6 speed manual is easier to control but the SMG seemed like it made the car difficult to drive. I don't think he understood the concept of feathering the throttle either. The car was like a light switch, it was all on or all off and nothing in between.

BiggerTwin

I got more attention in the WRX than M3. Of the few M3's I ran into, all the owners seemed to be to be true enthusiasts. While most BMW owners may not have a clue to what they are driving, the people in M3s didn't seem to fall into them by accident just because they were on the showroom floor. Same thing for the few S4 owners I have spoken with.

Alan

JonRS4

a relative thing...just a few MPH more than the guy next to you and you've got the sensationn of going fast. So why the need for a NEW S4 except to say you have the best new toy? All this talk that the S4 is somehow understated just speaks to some desire to have a SLEEPER More consumerism.

JonRS4

$55K on a car. Many people will make informed decisions and buy an S4 but many more still will buy one on emotion and hyperbole. Witness the soaring credit card and personal debt in this country.

BiggerTwin

I used to have two sportbikes. I owned an American V-Twin (the origins of my screen name) and then bought a Japanese 4 cylinder motorcycle. The Japanese bike was capable of higher top speeds but on the winding back roads I frequent you couldn't top out either. Even so, the Japanese motorcycle seemed much faster with all its mechanical noise, high pitched exhaust note, and more aggressive ergonomics. When I finally took the time to look at the speedometers, I found I wasn't going much faster on the same stretch of road on the Japanese bike than I did on the more relaxed American bike. I discovered then that I don't care how fast I am going; it is more important that I feel like I am going fast and enjoy the sensation. In racing, being fastest is everything. On the street, it is only a top priority for those who want bragging rights to owning the "fastest" car. No matter where you are, driver skill is usually more important than sophisticated equipment

You are also on a forum dedicated to a new car. I don't think the people here are any different from the people on boards dedicated to older enthusiast automobiles. For some it may be consumerism. For most, it is enthusiasm and passion. For someone whose hobby/vital absorbing interest is automobiles, it is only natural to be interested in the latest technological advances. The simple truth is newer cars are usually better, faster and safer.

Alan

BiggerTwin

Some will undoubtedly buy for the wrong reason and spend more than they can afford. That is unfortunate and primarily caused by the images promoted by the media. That is an ever present danger of living in a free society. As I always say, people have a Constitutional right to be stupid. You just shouldn't go around attacking real enthusiasts because some people are dumb consumers.

Alan

JonRS4

motor vehicles is no doubt real and is a purer pursuit than the simple accumulation of toys. BTW, I too prefer exploring the back roads on an air cooled, two valved V-twin motorcycle that is way down on raw HP compared to the Japanese fours. In my case it's a Ducati but it sounds like I chose my ride for not altogether dissimilar reasons to you. To me, the machine just feels right, sounds right and looks right. That's why I'm on this forum, looking for a car that will do the same thing for me. I expect it'll take some years to find one but that's where the passion part comes in.

BiggerTwin

the bottom line. I had it for the M3 but practical considerations (snow and family) are forcing me to the S4. I will let you know if it stirs passion as well.

Alan

E-Ticket

You're focusing on the wrong things.
It's not about 0-60 or peak speed. It's not about my car being faster that Joe's.

It's about improved drive and better control out of low-speed corners on a back country road.

Don't get me wrong - I absolutlely love my B5 S4.

But the B5's V-8 will:
-- never have any turbo lag (this is actually a safety item when needing to get out of the way of an impending crash... just "stomp-it-and-gio" ...and I speak from experience)
-- consistent power: none or greatly-reduced engine surging from knock retention. (This is more apparent when runnning a modded turbo engine.) This is important when you trying to feather the throttle to maintain grip at the edge.
-- improved engine reliability: turbos *are* a wear item and will need to be replaced someday. With a V-8 and good care/maintence, it *should* go longer without major engine repair
-- shorter warm-up and cool-down times: *every* engine needs a proper w/u and c/d. But it is much more pronounced in turbo'd cars due to the higher temperatures associated with cooling the turbocharger/bearings
-- a V-8 can have a more "intriguing" exhaust note (notice I didn't say louder...)

As for your comment about me/us needing to be 3-4 mph faster than the guy next to me:
-- I have never been to a dragstrip
-- I have never recorded my 0-60 time
-- I *do* know that my S4 can reach 165 mph on a downhill run somewhere in Nevada. But it was pretty much a one-time deal and there was no else there to "show off" to or document the event. And I didn't post the fact on this or other forums.

So admiration from my fellow Audi owners/sportscar enthuiasts is not a factor either.

When a basic Yugo or public transit will get you from Point A to Point B - it is hard to justify *any* nice or faster car.

But simply put, it's *all* about the driving experince. - ET