Audi releases new oil requirement info and opinions on our crappy US oils. Check it out!
05-12-2005, 08:02 AM
#11
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Because it saves Audi some number of dollars on maintenance costs
It's what I've said all along about the Audi advantage and ever more unrealistic maintenance intervals.
Audi knows all too well what to do for their engines, but they also know that by not providing synthetic and by mandating 10,000 mile service intervals, wear will occur but it won't be noticeable until after the vehicle is out of warranty, when it's no longer their concern.
Frankly, I'm not aware that Audi has mandated synthetic for 2005+ V8s, either. If they <i>have</i>, I'm surprised some enterprising law firm hasn't already sued Audi on a class action basis on behalf of 2004 owners; this is what had to go on for Toyota, Lexus, VW and Audi to acknowledge oil sludging issues in the first place.
Frankly, in a court of law the original article based on engineering data from Audi AG wouldn't help AoA's case any...
Audi knows all too well what to do for their engines, but they also know that by not providing synthetic and by mandating 10,000 mile service intervals, wear will occur but it won't be noticeable until after the vehicle is out of warranty, when it's no longer their concern.
Frankly, I'm not aware that Audi has mandated synthetic for 2005+ V8s, either. If they <i>have</i>, I'm surprised some enterprising law firm hasn't already sued Audi on a class action basis on behalf of 2004 owners; this is what had to go on for Toyota, Lexus, VW and Audi to acknowledge oil sludging issues in the first place.
Frankly, in a court of law the original article based on engineering data from Audi AG wouldn't help AoA's case any...
05-12-2005, 08:48 AM
#13
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I love that website. I'm a novice oil buff. Audi's manual has the worst oil references; so vague
For example, the 0W-30 they recommend does not meet the ACEA wear requirements they call for in Mobil1, but the Mobil1 meets the super-broad SJ requirement, so you would think it is good enough.Neither do most 5W-30. GC Castrol 0W-30 meets it, though.
05-12-2005, 09:33 AM
#15
Typical (unfortunately) AoA BS and doublespeak. Look, we spent significant $ on the car, why delude
us into thinking we can use cheap crap oil in it. Oh, its because they want the option to cheap out on the Audi Advantage (which is used to sell the car) and put in the cheap crap on their dime - so if they required synth, then they couldn't give us $9 worth of oil and consider their obligation filled during the "pre-paid" oil changes. Stinks, IMO!
I'm sure the SL/SM API rated thin, high mileage crap will be OK during the warranty period on most cars...they should bite the bullet and sell European spec oil at a very low mark-up through the dealers and just charge us for the oil changes. That would be OK by me, but I'm sure it would cost them sales (per the marketing dept guys). Actually some decent dealers use synth, but I'm sure AoA gives out standard reimbursement for oil changes so if the dealer uses $50 per drum dino-crap they pocket the extra $. Explain to me again why Audi resale values stink?
End of rant! ;-P
I'm sure the SL/SM API rated thin, high mileage crap will be OK during the warranty period on most cars...they should bite the bullet and sell European spec oil at a very low mark-up through the dealers and just charge us for the oil changes. That would be OK by me, but I'm sure it would cost them sales (per the marketing dept guys). Actually some decent dealers use synth, but I'm sure AoA gives out standard reimbursement for oil changes so if the dealer uses $50 per drum dino-crap they pocket the extra $. Explain to me again why Audi resale values stink?
End of rant! ;-P
05-12-2005, 12:43 PM
#17
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Would you care to substantiate that statement? $$$ != Best oil.
"Some use Mobil1 but it has a lower flash point and is more suceptable to thermal break down. The infusion of the type of esters used in other oils is what causes this, where a true ester based oil is less likely to have these issues."
... Lower flashpoint than what? Motul 8100 Ester? Wrongo ... bzzzt. They both have a 226C flashpoint. I'll note that M1 0W-40 has a 236C flashpoint, if you want to compare grade to grade. But FP doesn't tell even a fraction of the story.
Motul 8100 0W-40 has an HTSS of 3.66. That's within Audi's spec. But it's not as high as D1. The rest of this oils #'s are not that impressive, here is a UOA test report of it:
<a href="http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001229">8100 UAO Test></a>
FYI Delvac 1 (M1 T&SUV) is much different than normal Mobil 1 synthetic. It's 26% ester stock.
IMO, you can desktop race and talk #'s all day but you step foot on the racetrack and really see how a car performs. Same goes for oil .. you can read the specs all day long but the Used Oil Analysis tests from _our_ engines tells the real story of that oils performance.
Care to take a sample @5k with Motul 8100? Lets compare it to my D1 @5k. Free test kits at:
<a href="http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free_test_kit.html">Test Kit></a>
<a href="http://www.opieoils.co.uk/lubricants.htm">Motul Specs></a>
<a href="http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_Truck_SUV_5W-40.asp">D1 Specs></a>
Keman
05 S4 Avant MT6
... Lower flashpoint than what? Motul 8100 Ester? Wrongo ... bzzzt. They both have a 226C flashpoint. I'll note that M1 0W-40 has a 236C flashpoint, if you want to compare grade to grade. But FP doesn't tell even a fraction of the story.
Motul 8100 0W-40 has an HTSS of 3.66. That's within Audi's spec. But it's not as high as D1. The rest of this oils #'s are not that impressive, here is a UOA test report of it:
<a href="http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001229">8100 UAO Test></a>
FYI Delvac 1 (M1 T&SUV) is much different than normal Mobil 1 synthetic. It's 26% ester stock.
IMO, you can desktop race and talk #'s all day but you step foot on the racetrack and really see how a car performs. Same goes for oil .. you can read the specs all day long but the Used Oil Analysis tests from _our_ engines tells the real story of that oils performance.
Care to take a sample @5k with Motul 8100? Lets compare it to my D1 @5k. Free test kits at:
<a href="http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free_test_kit.html">Test Kit></a>
<a href="http://www.opieoils.co.uk/lubricants.htm">Motul Specs></a>
<a href="http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_Truck_SUV_5W-40.asp">D1 Specs></a>
Keman
05 S4 Avant MT6
05-12-2005, 12:58 PM
#18
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Exactly. That's why I feel the first 5K oil change is bogus...
It should probably be ~ 1000mi. Think of how much extra money it would cost if they threw that 1K oil change in there. The manufacturers that don't do it for free all recommend a much earlier oil change than audi. And they need to write an oil list w/ it easily spelled out on a per car/engine/year basis.
05-12-2005, 02:00 PM
#20
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Do me a favor and read the link I posted in the post below....
it talks about how the 8100's HTSS measures lower because of the way the esters are blended. I would love to run 300V in my car all year round, the double ester oil is amazing and if you really want to compare oil to oil, 8100 is most like the std mobil 1 and the D1 is much closer in design to the 300v at least. Also my statement was ment to be about std Mobil1 not D1, my mistake on that part. I will send out a sample at my next oil change and report the exhausts.