6 Speed Manual or the S-Tronic (Long - sorry)
02-03-2010, 10:23 AM
#11
To me, it's really about the progress that's been made. I never liked automatic slush boxes since they were generally inferior to manuals regarding performance (except for rock-crawling in Jeeps). However, now that dual-clutch and other automated manuals are available, performance favors the new tech (speed and mpg). That, plus the convenience of the S-Tronic and its ability to consistently shift faster than a person, makes it an easy choice for me. Of course, if you're married and your significant other can't drive a stick (my wife can't), then that makes the choice even simpler.
Choosing the manual is strictly for purists who enjoy the connection with the transmission moreso than the cars performance. It's kinda like the choice between vinyl and high-res digital audio, reading a newspaper vs. reading online news, or even choosing to write a letter rather than using email.
Just my $0.02.
Choosing the manual is strictly for purists who enjoy the connection with the transmission moreso than the cars performance. It's kinda like the choice between vinyl and high-res digital audio, reading a newspaper vs. reading online news, or even choosing to write a letter rather than using email.
Just my $0.02.
02-03-2010, 10:39 AM
#12
AudiWorld Super User
Kind of funny when PDK came out on the 997 there was a big feeling out process amongst potential customers and now it is viewed as the must have trans. I think the same is happening with the S tronic. Much like the old tiptronic for the Porsche was lackluster, and I'm sure the B7 S4 auto was lacking too. These new dual clutch wet boxes are pretty slick.
02-03-2010, 03:57 PM
#13
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Enjoying MT is all about the driving experience desired and have nothing to do with being reluctant to technology progression. Just my €0.02.
02-03-2010, 05:25 PM
#14
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Soccer mom in her 40ies at my kids school drives Imola yellow (calipers too) S4 and proud to do it too. When i line up my Turbo X with hers in the pickup line we make it a point to exchange a few high revved engine notes, to the dismay of the Caddy driving Miss Piggies 
02-03-2010, 07:48 PM
#16
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Have driven manuals for years. My last six cars have all been manual.
I've driven both transmissions in the S4 back to back over the course of an entire day and am 100% sold on the S4.
There's nothing gimmicky about it and the performance is very impressive. It can rev match and double clutch faster than I can and I don't have to think about it.
I just feel it's a better mate to the way the S4 drives.
I've driven both transmissions in the S4 back to back over the course of an entire day and am 100% sold on the S4.
There's nothing gimmicky about it and the performance is very impressive. It can rev match and double clutch faster than I can and I don't have to think about it.
I just feel it's a better mate to the way the S4 drives.
02-03-2010, 09:02 PM
#17
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from your tone, sounds like you have an S-Tronic. At least put your current config in your sig, so I or others do not have to ask dumb questions like this.
Bruce
Bruce
02-04-2010, 07:24 AM
#18
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one data point
NB: This is NOT meant in any way as “Audi bashing” –
Or as “S4 bashing”.
Depending on your expectations, the S Tronic may be just fine.
Based on a test drive last year, it was not ‘fine’, for me.
YMMV.
In my [ not so humble ] opinion - having driven transmissions with both an automatic & a manual override function for almost 10 years now, the Audi programming model for the S Tronic just does not represent what I expect. And it does not fit my personal requirements.
In my view “Manual Mode”, means execute the commands I manually input – unless the execution would result in catastrophe [ over-revving the engine on a downshift, obviously ], or an engine RPM that would be too low to allow comfortable cruising or acceleration in the next higher selected gear – when upshifting. In all other conditions, do what I tell you.
The biggest flaw of Audi’s programming \ “Manual Mode” algorithm, in my view, is that the trans. ignores upshift requests when it pleases. When at [ or even near ] WOT, a command to upshift is simply ‘declined’. I tried this several times – commanding an upshift at moderate to full throttle & at 2,500 to 4,000 RPM. No dice.
For me, brisk & entertaining acceleration does not [ necessarily ] mean I want to run the engine all the way to Red Line. I often accelerate at wide throttle openings but “short shift” – upshifting well before the Red Line. The S4 simply will not do this. Surprising, to me.
The manually commanded downshifts were very quick & seamless.
Based on the first couple of miles, testing the trans. [mis-]behavior, I drove straight back to the dealership – I did not spend any time trying to develop a feel for the perception of understeer, for ride quality under more challenging conditions, etc. This one dynamic flaw is so fundamental to how I often drive [ briskly, but not usually pushing anywhere near maximum revs ] that I knew very quickly that this S4 would be unacceptable – for me.
Briefly back in automatic mode, all seemed fine with the trans.
The upshifts & downshifts were very quick and the TQ management seemed well executed.
I expect that many will have no issues with this drivetrain.
If your expectations of “Manual Mode” are different than mine – or you always drive in fully automatic - this may be The Car For You.
I found the finish & materials used in the interior to be uniformly excellent and the interior styling very attractive. The seats fit me perfectly – both for comfort & support. The supercharged V6 provides excellent response.
An excellent car.
Just not for me . . .
- Ray
Somewhat disappointed . . .
Or as “S4 bashing”.
Depending on your expectations, the S Tronic may be just fine.
Based on a test drive last year, it was not ‘fine’, for me.
YMMV.
In my [ not so humble ] opinion - having driven transmissions with both an automatic & a manual override function for almost 10 years now, the Audi programming model for the S Tronic just does not represent what I expect. And it does not fit my personal requirements.
In my view “Manual Mode”, means execute the commands I manually input – unless the execution would result in catastrophe [ over-revving the engine on a downshift, obviously ], or an engine RPM that would be too low to allow comfortable cruising or acceleration in the next higher selected gear – when upshifting. In all other conditions, do what I tell you.
The biggest flaw of Audi’s programming \ “Manual Mode” algorithm, in my view, is that the trans. ignores upshift requests when it pleases. When at [ or even near ] WOT, a command to upshift is simply ‘declined’. I tried this several times – commanding an upshift at moderate to full throttle & at 2,500 to 4,000 RPM. No dice.
For me, brisk & entertaining acceleration does not [ necessarily ] mean I want to run the engine all the way to Red Line. I often accelerate at wide throttle openings but “short shift” – upshifting well before the Red Line. The S4 simply will not do this. Surprising, to me.
The manually commanded downshifts were very quick & seamless.
Based on the first couple of miles, testing the trans. [mis-]behavior, I drove straight back to the dealership – I did not spend any time trying to develop a feel for the perception of understeer, for ride quality under more challenging conditions, etc. This one dynamic flaw is so fundamental to how I often drive [ briskly, but not usually pushing anywhere near maximum revs ] that I knew very quickly that this S4 would be unacceptable – for me.
Briefly back in automatic mode, all seemed fine with the trans.
The upshifts & downshifts were very quick and the TQ management seemed well executed.
I expect that many will have no issues with this drivetrain.
If your expectations of “Manual Mode” are different than mine – or you always drive in fully automatic - this may be The Car For You.
I found the finish & materials used in the interior to be uniformly excellent and the interior styling very attractive. The seats fit me perfectly – both for comfort & support. The supercharged V6 provides excellent response.
An excellent car.
Just not for me . . .
- Ray
Somewhat disappointed . . .
02-04-2010, 09:05 AM
#19
AudiWorld Super User
The biggest flaw of Audi’s programming \ “Manual Mode” algorithm, in my view, is that the trans. ignores upshift requests when it pleases. When at [ or even near ] WOT, a command to upshift is simply ‘declined’. I tried this several times – commanding an upshift at moderate to full throttle & at 2,500 to 4,000 RPM. No dice.
For me, brisk & entertaining acceleration does not [ necessarily ] mean I want to run the engine all the way to Red Line. I often accelerate at wide throttle openings but “short shift” – upshifting well before the Red Line. The S4 simply will not do this. Surprising, to me.
02-04-2010, 09:45 AM
#20
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Just out of curiosity Ray, what dual clutch transmission are you comparing the S-tronic too in this price range? Or are you simply inferring that as a technology the S-tronic is not up to what you envision a proper acting dual clutch should behave like?
I have driven both the M3's dual clutch DSG transmission as well as latest SMG offering's on M5/M6 and have to say IMHO the S-tronic seemed to react just as fast up and down
I have driven both the M3's dual clutch DSG transmission as well as latest SMG offering's on M5/M6 and have to say IMHO the S-tronic seemed to react just as fast up and down