APR numbers are out
08-19-2010, 08:34 AM
#51
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I'm going to have to agree with you mostly here Doc. I read that thread Sak referenced and it's only 4 dudes talking about a platform none of them owns or knows a lot of details about (until Marty comes by and actually questions the hate he is seeing to make it a 5th). I'm not fauting them for being unfamiliar with a platform they don't own, but I also don't swagger around the areas I don't have any familiartity with and attempt to trash talk it.
If you want to have a discussion, I am all about that, hell I even quoted Sak from a seperate thread, doing a ton of digging and research to create an entire thread just about our SC. He said he would have to go read it, it looked like good info - but apparently chose not to or forgot it and can't find it.
Here are some facts to save you guys the work of researching:
- Eaton warranty for these SC's is 18,800RPM's max speed
- Stock the S4 spools the SC to VERY close to this, leaving not a lot of room for a pulley to help much without brushing against the void limit
- The SC is a boost up roots style TVS, where the compressed air is forced to the top of the SC housing, then out the sides, and down through the IC's straight in to the intake runners
- Don't use vernacular particular to your platform when it doesn't work on this one: We have downpipes AND cats, they are seperate, so talking about still having stock exhaust manifold and downpipes with no mention of the cats exposes to those familiar with this platform that you are unfamiliar with it and that any of your observations and comments are suspect.
- It's not just APR's dyno which has shown quite high numbers, AWE showed 312WHP and they use a Mustang dyno
Source: http://www.awe-tuning.com/pages/info...cfm?content=87
About the Dyno charts:
- The gains happen up top, this is not the fault of the tune or tuner, you can't magically create things that are not there. The bypass valve apparently only really comes into play after about 5K, so if it's already open, all there is to do is massage things some, no more boost to use.
- Where this car currently starts to runout of steam and gets walked on by other cars (both VAG cars and others) is in the top end. This is a great tune from the standpoint of keeping the power where it was starting to taper off.
If you want to have a discussion, I am all about that, hell I even quoted Sak from a seperate thread, doing a ton of digging and research to create an entire thread just about our SC. He said he would have to go read it, it looked like good info - but apparently chose not to or forgot it and can't find it.
Here are some facts to save you guys the work of researching:
- Eaton warranty for these SC's is 18,800RPM's max speed
- Stock the S4 spools the SC to VERY close to this, leaving not a lot of room for a pulley to help much without brushing against the void limit
- The SC is a boost up roots style TVS, where the compressed air is forced to the top of the SC housing, then out the sides, and down through the IC's straight in to the intake runners
- Don't use vernacular particular to your platform when it doesn't work on this one: We have downpipes AND cats, they are seperate, so talking about still having stock exhaust manifold and downpipes with no mention of the cats exposes to those familiar with this platform that you are unfamiliar with it and that any of your observations and comments are suspect.
- It's not just APR's dyno which has shown quite high numbers, AWE showed 312WHP and they use a Mustang dyno
Source: http://www.awe-tuning.com/pages/info...cfm?content=87
About the Dyno charts:
- The gains happen up top, this is not the fault of the tune or tuner, you can't magically create things that are not there. The bypass valve apparently only really comes into play after about 5K, so if it's already open, all there is to do is massage things some, no more boost to use.
- Where this car currently starts to runout of steam and gets walked on by other cars (both VAG cars and others) is in the top end. This is a great tune from the standpoint of keeping the power where it was starting to taper off.
08-19-2010, 08:40 AM
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08-19-2010, 08:42 AM
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I think you know next to nothing about B8 owners. Just watching how quickly people are modding their cars should tell you that this is an ambitious group.... You talk about how many people will chip their B8?? Probably 50x as many B6/7 owners that will supercharge their cars.
I'll grab the APR flash the day it's available if I can get to my local shop to have them do the flash. At the latest it will take me a week or two. I don't know why you doubt there won't be a bunch of people doing the same. (I'm assuming it will be some sort of OBD port flash performed at your local speed shop, in my case Achtuning)
It's really too bad you just can't admit that the B8 S4 is a pretty awesome car... you spend all your time trying argue the contrary. The B6/7 platform was sweet... but it was no B5 in terms of mod friendly power... and it's also definitely no B8.
I bet a stage 1 tuned B8 will do low 12's in the quarter... as for warranty, APR has already stated that the flash will be hidden.... just like on the B5's.
I don't know what is meant by "you guys won't be the ones to make your cars run the fastest"... well, we'll be the ones to make them run the fastest right now, and when we all move on to the next/newer b9 or b10 s4/Rs4, then yes, maybe someone will make my car ever faster... but who really cares 5 to 10 years from now?
I'll grab the APR flash the day it's available if I can get to my local shop to have them do the flash. At the latest it will take me a week or two. I don't know why you doubt there won't be a bunch of people doing the same. (I'm assuming it will be some sort of OBD port flash performed at your local speed shop, in my case Achtuning)
It's really too bad you just can't admit that the B8 S4 is a pretty awesome car... you spend all your time trying argue the contrary. The B6/7 platform was sweet... but it was no B5 in terms of mod friendly power... and it's also definitely no B8.
I bet a stage 1 tuned B8 will do low 12's in the quarter... as for warranty, APR has already stated that the flash will be hidden.... just like on the B5's.
I don't know what is meant by "you guys won't be the ones to make your cars run the fastest"... well, we'll be the ones to make them run the fastest right now, and when we all move on to the next/newer b9 or b10 s4/Rs4, then yes, maybe someone will make my car ever faster... but who really cares 5 to 10 years from now?
Where have I said anything negative about the B8 S4? SHOW ME!!!!
My biggest problems are with 3-4 of the owners. THAT'S IT! You're number one on the list. I love how you mention your 911 (cab
) as if it makes you a trusted expert on motivating an S4 faster down a 1/4 mile. It's a measure of your ability to buy nice stuff. Congrats. We all have nice stuff. Doesn't make any of us smarter than the next guy.I don't question that you guys will chip your cars. You're the forum guys. that's what forum guys do. My only question about 'will you actually do it' was because of a vibe I picked up in this thread where guys were kinda ho-hum about the numbers. Just read the thread man...half the posts were 'um...welll...I dunno...gonna wait...' whereas 3 months ago all of you guys were jonesing for APR.
What i said about you not making your car the fastest related to your bitching about how slow the B6/7 is...it's WAY faster than any B8 on the planet with only good stuff to come. You were probbaly the first owner of your B6, and you didn't make it fast at all. There are now a dozen 12 second B6 cars, while when you owned yours there were zero...just a few 13.5 second guys. There are a few 12.2-12.4 B6 guys...and there will be an 11 second pass in a B6 S4 this friday. There won't be one in a B8 until you guys drop a TVS1900 in there...and I don't imagine you'll be the one to do it. It will be some guy who buys your car for $28,000 and puts $9,000 into it.
Here...read this. This is what I'm all about on the B8 S4. This is from EA. Stop lying to yourself and admit...I love your car. I just don't like you
saki, if you remove the owners from the b8 s4 section, what exactly is the beef with the platform?
dont get me wrong, i dont think this is a 500hp crank car with just a program. but i do think with meth + programming, + catless everything, this is a 500hp 11s car.
and PS, the owners of the B8 S4 section are so much better than the owners of the b6 s4 section (when they were fresh circa 03-04). even the b5 section (circa 1999-2001, yes ive been in the scene that long), were on par with the b8 s4 section when comparing early stages to early stages.
granted i am comparing herpes (b8 s4 section in infancy) to the AIDs (b5 section in infancy) and hiv (b6 s4 section in infancy). the owners and the platform fanbois will get better.
dont get me wrong, i dont think this is a 500hp crank car with just a program. but i do think with meth + programming, + catless everything, this is a 500hp 11s car.
and PS, the owners of the B8 S4 section are so much better than the owners of the b6 s4 section (when they were fresh circa 03-04). even the b5 section (circa 1999-2001, yes ive been in the scene that long), were on par with the b8 s4 section when comparing early stages to early stages.
granted i am comparing herpes (b8 s4 section in infancy) to the AIDs (b5 section in infancy) and hiv (b6 s4 section in infancy). the owners and the platform fanbois will get better.
absolutely no beef with the platform. Again, I owned the B8 platform a year before any of them had dropped a $2000 deposit on one (I have a 2009 B8 A4 Avant)
further, if you look at everything I've ever posted about the actual car, it's complimentary, with 2 exceptions
a) I don't like the sound, but then I'm comparing to my 4.2 S4. Compared to my 2.0T tractor sounding A4, the B8 S4 is great. It's all relative.
b) I don't like the rear end...bit droopy, but really not that bad.
Otherwise, I think it's a fantastic car, and if my car were stolen and insurance said 'Here's $50,000', I'd have a hard time not buying a B8 S4. I just don't like it more than my current B7 S4, otherwise, I'd sell my B7 and buy a B8. That's why I sold my IS300 and bought my B7...because I liked it more. That's why I sold my B6 A4 Avant and bought a B8 A4 Avant...because I liked it more. There's nothing stopping me...I just don't like it more than my car.
Again, I've never said I dis-like the car...I've constantly praised the car for being a fantastic machine, and now 2 of my friends drive them because when they said 'what should I spend $60,000 on' I told them exactly what to get...a B8 S4 with S-tronic/sport diff/nav and whatever else you need to enjoy yourself.
As I said on AW, I see the facts about B8 S4 performance...while B8 S4 owners (the fanboyish vocal ones) see something that's totally emotional and not rooted in fact. when I report the facts, they call me a hater, because it's not as sugar coated as their fanboy version of the story.
It's EXACTLY like ngng/bananaS4 and his B6 S4 with VF engineering supercharger. He called me a hater when I said 'NO ****ING WAY your car makes 402whp in the real world/NFW it will hang with a legit 400WHP car.' I said it because he was overstating his case based on an emotional fanboyish response to his $10,000 supercharger kit (and he was being compensated by VF Engineering to plague our forums with rosy reviews of the thing as we later found). Anyway, he called me a supercharger hater there. I laughed. I have been bugging JHM about their supercharger for 6 months now, ever since they let word slip about it. I love superchargers...I just won't sit there while someone distorts the truth.
back to the B8...the people who think a B8 with just chip, catback and intake will run 12.2 are insane. They know very little about real world performance, and the power needed to move a 4000lb car from 13.0 to 12.2. It's not like moving a 4000 lb car from 13.8 to 13.0, as we did with the B6/7. Even then, that took about 40whp/60wtq (300whp/300wtq). To move a B6/7 from 13.0 to 12.2 took 400whp. That's a difference of 100whp and it was a ton of wtq.
If anyone thinks a chip/intake/catback on a B8 S4 for 38 WHP on APR's dyno will accomplish the same 13.0 to 12.2 move (as the fanboys are all predicting on AQ/QW/AZ), I've got $50,000 in a bank account that I'm waiting to give the dealer in my town. Physics is a bitch...and you can't fool it.
further, if you look at everything I've ever posted about the actual car, it's complimentary, with 2 exceptions
a) I don't like the sound, but then I'm comparing to my 4.2 S4. Compared to my 2.0T tractor sounding A4, the B8 S4 is great. It's all relative.
b) I don't like the rear end...bit droopy, but really not that bad.
Otherwise, I think it's a fantastic car, and if my car were stolen and insurance said 'Here's $50,000', I'd have a hard time not buying a B8 S4. I just don't like it more than my current B7 S4, otherwise, I'd sell my B7 and buy a B8. That's why I sold my IS300 and bought my B7...because I liked it more. That's why I sold my B6 A4 Avant and bought a B8 A4 Avant...because I liked it more. There's nothing stopping me...I just don't like it more than my car.
Again, I've never said I dis-like the car...I've constantly praised the car for being a fantastic machine, and now 2 of my friends drive them because when they said 'what should I spend $60,000 on' I told them exactly what to get...a B8 S4 with S-tronic/sport diff/nav and whatever else you need to enjoy yourself.
As I said on AW, I see the facts about B8 S4 performance...while B8 S4 owners (the fanboyish vocal ones) see something that's totally emotional and not rooted in fact. when I report the facts, they call me a hater, because it's not as sugar coated as their fanboy version of the story.
It's EXACTLY like ngng/bananaS4 and his B6 S4 with VF engineering supercharger. He called me a hater when I said 'NO ****ING WAY your car makes 402whp in the real world/NFW it will hang with a legit 400WHP car.' I said it because he was overstating his case based on an emotional fanboyish response to his $10,000 supercharger kit (and he was being compensated by VF Engineering to plague our forums with rosy reviews of the thing as we later found). Anyway, he called me a supercharger hater there. I laughed. I have been bugging JHM about their supercharger for 6 months now, ever since they let word slip about it. I love superchargers...I just won't sit there while someone distorts the truth.
back to the B8...the people who think a B8 with just chip, catback and intake will run 12.2 are insane. They know very little about real world performance, and the power needed to move a 4000lb car from 13.0 to 12.2. It's not like moving a 4000 lb car from 13.8 to 13.0, as we did with the B6/7. Even then, that took about 40whp/60wtq (300whp/300wtq). To move a B6/7 from 13.0 to 12.2 took 400whp. That's a difference of 100whp and it was a ton of wtq.
If anyone thinks a chip/intake/catback on a B8 S4 for 38 WHP on APR's dyno will accomplish the same 13.0 to 12.2 move (as the fanboys are all predicting on AQ/QW/AZ), I've got $50,000 in a bank account that I'm waiting to give the dealer in my town. Physics is a bitch...and you can't fool it.
Last edited by sakimano; 08-19-2010 at 08:44 AM.
08-19-2010, 08:52 AM
#54
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sorry...you just repeated pretty much everything I said, other than pulling AWE's dyno out. Your cats vs. downpipes reference...I have no idea what you mean with that. I never once talked about cats and downpipes on the B8 S4.
I talked about the supercharger being the limiter...and the tune being very simple with respect to its mission - eliminate the restriction to redline from 5200+
I talked about your car needing a bigger blower to really start to post BIG gains (i.e. 100whp over stock)
So...you're agreeing with much of what I wrote here. Get it? I've never said I'm a B8 expert, but a few times I've waved a red flag when you guys have gone overboard...or have taunted me with a 'what's saki going to say now'. It's comical.
I talked about the supercharger being the limiter...and the tune being very simple with respect to its mission - eliminate the restriction to redline from 5200+
I talked about your car needing a bigger blower to really start to post BIG gains (i.e. 100whp over stock)
So...you're agreeing with much of what I wrote here. Get it? I've never said I'm a B8 expert, but a few times I've waved a red flag when you guys have gone overboard...or have taunted me with a 'what's saki going to say now'. It's comical.
08-19-2010, 08:59 AM
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I don't think so. Stasis is advertising 410WHP on their tune which is coming very soon here also, they want $1495 for it, and that is with a warranty. I would think the numbers would have to pretty handily eclipse Stasis' numbers to get people to pay the same dough for something without a warranty.
08-19-2010, 09:02 AM
#56
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Typical. You don't want to read what is written, you want to say that YOU were saying this all along. If you had bothered to read anything you would have seen I was talking about the single thread which is a "conversation of 4 dudes" that make up nearly 100% of the traffic your B8 S4 board has seen in the last 24 hours.
I pointed out the lack of overall understanding of the platform on that thread, by everyone. You seem to think you are so important that every comment is one made to your or about you, narcissism is never becoming. You can do everyone (yourself included) a favor and stick to your boards that have Rep, that's what is important after all.
I pointed out the lack of overall understanding of the platform on that thread, by everyone. You seem to think you are so important that every comment is one made to your or about you, narcissism is never becoming. You can do everyone (yourself included) a favor and stick to your boards that have Rep, that's what is important after all.
08-19-2010, 09:04 AM
#57
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https://forums.audiworld.com/poll.ph...lts&pollid=135
41 responses
37 want to chip, 4 said they will pass.
08-19-2010, 09:07 AM
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https://forums.audiworld.com/poll.ph...lts&pollid=135
41 responses
37 want to chip, 4 said they will pass.
08-19-2010, 09:09 AM
#59
AudiWorld Member
To get this thread back on track, I have an observation on power and 0-60 & 1/4 mile times. With the claimed peak hp and torque numbers from APR that puts our B8 S4s in the same territory as the Merc C63, and our cars weigh about the same as well! I know there's a lot of things that go into acceleration numbers besides just the peak hp and torque numbers, but the Merc is pulling 4.1-4.2sec 0-60 times and a 12.5 1/4 mile. Seems reasonable to me that we should be able to do similar times...at least within a tenth or two.
08-19-2010, 09:10 AM
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/OUT OF THREAD CONTEXT
<o></o> <!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]--> This forum is usually great and peaceful, is it possible to keep it this way? IMHO, please call 911 and do something about this member "sakimano". He is completely counterproductive and so jealously using bandwidth to bring down this generation of S4 and harming the quality of information from members around here. His mind is completely out of phase. Disable him or don't answer to him until his mind gets back on track.
Thanks and Cheers everyone!
<o></o> <!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]--> This forum is usually great and peaceful, is it possible to keep it this way? IMHO, please call 911 and do something about this member "sakimano". He is completely counterproductive and so jealously using bandwidth to bring down this generation of S4 and harming the quality of information from members around here. His mind is completely out of phase. Disable him or don't answer to him until his mind gets back on track.
Thanks and Cheers everyone!