TO407S4

Hello All,

First and foremost I appreciate all of your opinions and many of them have empowered me with the knowledge to embark on what appear to be smart purchases. With that aside I’ve been researching ECU threads and admittedly not mechanically inclined. Due to my background I understand that the ECU programming isn’t overly involved. From what I’ve read on these forums Audi rarely updates the ECU, along with other software components. This was a major concern for me and relief seeing as I have a hard time believing that there are no dependencies on other systems. I had the pleasure of speaking to an Audi technician over beers one day and found out the EU version of the S4 are actually using higher PSI values from the SC. (Whether this is true or not… I don’t know)

Now since I’m not mechanically inclined my concern is with the MTBF (mean time between failures) on piston rings, supercharger, drivetrain, etc. All the threads I’ve read that started off asking this question started a war between which is better APR or STaSIS. This isn’t my question however =)

What additional wear could be driven through the ECU upgrade?

I’m concerned about warranty related issues and what could be pointed back to the ECU. Example if I start having issues with my DSG and went in, I’d be awfully pissed if they tried to say it was ECU related. I just want to make an informed decision, and understand there are risks with every mod.

My dealership pushes the ECU upgrade especially after having the pleasure (or not so pleasurable) experience of being in my passenger seat =)

I love my car and it’s my daily driver. She has her flaws but I love them because it adds character. I just want to know my risks before giving myself the ECU upgrade as a Christmas gift.

jdong

This has been argued back and forth on just about every Audi message board, and the end result seems to boil down to:


(1) Nobody really knows how much of a risk it really poses. Tune vendors will say that it's safe.
(2) It's not undetectable. The dealers can generally figure out whether or not your ECU is flashed.
(3) If you bring your car in for a drivetrain problem (e.g. your DSG), there is definitely a risk that the dealer will refuse to honor your warranty because of your ECU tune.
(4) So far, there's been no real-world reports on any of these forums that anyone has had a drivetrain issue after an ECU modification where the dealer refused to honor the warranty.


So, I guess, make an educated decision and know the risks.

TO407S4

@jdong thanks =) Most of that I've read but didn't realize that they would scrutinize the ECU for a DSG related issue.

Thanks again for the reply... I just wanted to take the debates out of the question in regards to vendor preference =)

nocturn

i sent email to APR about the service problem with ECU tuned, they said "You will have the capability to switch the car back to stock mode before you take it in to the dealership."

IvanS4

Switching back to stock performance is not the same as undetectable. If Audi is determined to avoid paying a claim, they can detect if the ECU has been tampered with.

helix139

This is true. In the event of a catastrophic failure, if they really wanted to examine your ECU and find out if it is tuned, they will. However, if you switch it back to stock, dealerships are not going to easily uncover it using the standard VAG diagnostic tools.

IMO, neither the APR or Stasis tunes are going to cause problems. Both keep all the OEM component protections in place and neither cause a signficant enough bump in peak torque to push things beyond tolerances. If there are existing problems they could exacerbate them, but most catastrophic problems would show themselves early on, which is why I would recommend driving at least 10,000 miles or so before having your ECU flashed.

I've heard of exactly 1 fried ECU with the APR tune, and the person who it happened to thought it was related to the installer (a local APR dealer) rather than the flashing process itself. Other than that, if anyone is having issues, they aren't posting them online.

JohnBoyToo

After having 4 or 5 tuned vehicles from many mfg's and never having anything but FUN with the increases.... (so much so that going back to stock is like pulling the engine out of the vehicle )

My opinion?
the tune CAN cause problems if the tuner does not know what they are doing, all the more reason to go to an established tuner AND installer...

but know that,
n/a gas engines tunes will give you some increases, (+15 hp )
turbo gas engines can give you a bit more, (+30 hp or so)
turbo diesels can give you order of magnitude increases
(+150 hp and +250 lbft)


then enjoy the increases...

TO407S4

Thanks All =)
@helix139 I have 30,000km on the car and she runs the way I expect her to. (Now that I understand DSG better.. but I knew what I was getting myself into) Figured this would be a great update =) But wanted to understand the risks involved. Its nice to hear that the major vendors don't push the cars their beyond tolerance level.

helix139

Just an FYI, the Revo tune does make more power but you may want to read the APR 2.0 thread on AZ as there is some interesting info on how they accomplish that (using requested vs. actual boost). If you're concerned about longevity, this is worth a look as there seems to be some evidence that Revo has disabled the component protection in order to achieve higher boost levels. This may or may not have a negative effect on your engine, but it is an unknown to think about.

FatalBert

And to think I have been a bit paranoid lately hearing about failures not being covered because of an ECU tune. I went with the claim from APR that the tune is undetectable when getting it done.

After hearing about the investigation that Audi can open on a large claim (like engine failure) this made me uneasy.

But there is some comfort with the fact that APR is the safest of all tunes in general. (I don't care about an extra 20-30 hp if it will put my engine at risk). I would rather buy an exhaust.