Handling/Cornering S4 vs. M3
08-06-2010, 11:20 AM
#41
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[QUOTE=Avant_to_remember;24014999]
Thanks for taking the time to think about this. I am feeling a little sheepish because I may have given the impression that my dear wifey is a racer--not so, she likes fast cars and taking curves; but she doesn't have the skill or knowledge that some of your questions imply.
What are the roads like?
Mostly highway and street driving around Phoenix, but we do go to SoCal and there is a road (Pines-to-Palms, or PtP) full of great switchbacks that I mentioned in a previous post. No racetrack driving at all.
What are the approx. corner entry and exit speeds?
She can't get that specific.
Is the car oversteering?
Is it understeering?
She hasn't pushed it hard enough to experience either of those. On PtP, there are few guard rails, so she wasn't about to go fast on the turns with limited confidence in the car and her familiarity with it.
Is there too much lean or body roll?
She says this is what she is feeling that is different in the S4 than what she felt with the M3. She remembers feeling that the M3 was not tipping or leaning at all on the curves of the Taconic State Parkway in NY State where the M3 was her daily driver.
Are the tires squealing and is the car feeling like its sliding?
Again she hasn't pushed it far enough to get to that because she hasn't felt comfortable enough with it.
Is the traction control on, off or completely disabled?
Always on.
Does she like to modulate the throttle through sweeping turns or are we talking about corners that are low speed enough for brake, turn, accelerate?
Mostly the latter.
Oh, and a closer up pic of the front and rear sidewalls on the tires so I can get an idea of how serious she is. From the pic you posted, it looks like she is laying them over pretty well but I would like to see both the front and rear. Thanks.
She isn't serious enough to be wearing the sidewalls. She better not be. :-)
Thanks again.
Ok, fair enough, this is actually as I suspected.
First, go here http://www.audiclubaz.org/
You don't have the world's most active Chapter it seems but contact the webmaster and see if they have High Performance Driver's Education events coming up. For $400-800 she'll get to spend a day or weekend with driving instructors on a real road course. She'll be in a group of Audi Owners just like herself that are all there to learn their new cars in a safe, fun setting with instruction and education both on and off the track. They have multiple groups starting at Beginner and going all the way to Advanced. The Beginner Group usually rides in an evenly spaced pack at a moderate speed with instructors in the car to give you the basics. You'll see the Intermediate and Advanced Run Groups doing a little passing and really ripping it up and it will give you something to work towards and look forward to.
This would be great fun if you can't find something locally:
http://microsites.audiusa.com/ngw/09...ng_experience/
This site can help you find HPDE's that allow other brands or all brands of vehicles and some will have similar formats to that of the ACNA and ADE. Being previous BMW owners, you might want to check your local BMW Car Club as well as they will usually let you participate too.
http://www.motorsportreg.com/index.cfm/event/calendar
If you want to simply eliminate the body roll and carry on with a similar feeling to the M3, you can replace the coilovers with several brands that are currently available. I would suggest Stasis at www.stasisengineering.com. If on a budget, the Touring Kit will be just fine for you. http://www.stasisengineering.com/sig...ory=suspension
Summation:
She can let it roll and still be confident, the grip is still there once the car rolls all the way over and finally plants itself. She will have a lot of grip left at that point. Its called transitioning into the corner or turn in. At turn in is when the body roll happens and once the car has rolled all the way over, you'll still turn around the corner. It can be unsettling if you aren't prepared or if you don't realize that there is plenty of grip left.
Help her to gain confidence in her new car by attending a HPDE or by upgrading the suspension to eliminate most of the roll and you will have a very happy Audi owner who will begin to appreciate the car over her M3.
Learning what the car can really do vs. what you fear its doing will fix this problem right on up. She'll see people at the ACNA HPDE's with stock S4's sliding around corners and chasing down cars you would never think it would (that's in the Advanced Run Group). Once you learn the limits on a track in a safe environment, you can have more fun on the street knowing you are nowhere near the limits of the car's capabilities.
Thanks for taking the time to think about this. I am feeling a little sheepish because I may have given the impression that my dear wifey is a racer--not so, she likes fast cars and taking curves; but she doesn't have the skill or knowledge that some of your questions imply.
What are the roads like?
Mostly highway and street driving around Phoenix, but we do go to SoCal and there is a road (Pines-to-Palms, or PtP) full of great switchbacks that I mentioned in a previous post. No racetrack driving at all.
What are the approx. corner entry and exit speeds?
She can't get that specific.
Is the car oversteering?
Is it understeering?
She hasn't pushed it hard enough to experience either of those. On PtP, there are few guard rails, so she wasn't about to go fast on the turns with limited confidence in the car and her familiarity with it.
Is there too much lean or body roll?
She says this is what she is feeling that is different in the S4 than what she felt with the M3. She remembers feeling that the M3 was not tipping or leaning at all on the curves of the Taconic State Parkway in NY State where the M3 was her daily driver.
Are the tires squealing and is the car feeling like its sliding?
Again she hasn't pushed it far enough to get to that because she hasn't felt comfortable enough with it.
Is the traction control on, off or completely disabled?
Always on.
Does she like to modulate the throttle through sweeping turns or are we talking about corners that are low speed enough for brake, turn, accelerate?
Mostly the latter.
Oh, and a closer up pic of the front and rear sidewalls on the tires so I can get an idea of how serious she is. From the pic you posted, it looks like she is laying them over pretty well but I would like to see both the front and rear. Thanks.
She isn't serious enough to be wearing the sidewalls. She better not be. :-)
Thanks again.
First, go here http://www.audiclubaz.org/
You don't have the world's most active Chapter it seems but contact the webmaster and see if they have High Performance Driver's Education events coming up. For $400-800 she'll get to spend a day or weekend with driving instructors on a real road course. She'll be in a group of Audi Owners just like herself that are all there to learn their new cars in a safe, fun setting with instruction and education both on and off the track. They have multiple groups starting at Beginner and going all the way to Advanced. The Beginner Group usually rides in an evenly spaced pack at a moderate speed with instructors in the car to give you the basics. You'll see the Intermediate and Advanced Run Groups doing a little passing and really ripping it up and it will give you something to work towards and look forward to.
This would be great fun if you can't find something locally:
http://microsites.audiusa.com/ngw/09...ng_experience/
This site can help you find HPDE's that allow other brands or all brands of vehicles and some will have similar formats to that of the ACNA and ADE. Being previous BMW owners, you might want to check your local BMW Car Club as well as they will usually let you participate too.
http://www.motorsportreg.com/index.cfm/event/calendar
If you want to simply eliminate the body roll and carry on with a similar feeling to the M3, you can replace the coilovers with several brands that are currently available. I would suggest Stasis at www.stasisengineering.com. If on a budget, the Touring Kit will be just fine for you. http://www.stasisengineering.com/sig...ory=suspension
Summation:
She can let it roll and still be confident, the grip is still there once the car rolls all the way over and finally plants itself. She will have a lot of grip left at that point. Its called transitioning into the corner or turn in. At turn in is when the body roll happens and once the car has rolled all the way over, you'll still turn around the corner. It can be unsettling if you aren't prepared or if you don't realize that there is plenty of grip left.
Help her to gain confidence in her new car by attending a HPDE or by upgrading the suspension to eliminate most of the roll and you will have a very happy Audi owner who will begin to appreciate the car over her M3.
Learning what the car can really do vs. what you fear its doing will fix this problem right on up. She'll see people at the ACNA HPDE's with stock S4's sliding around corners and chasing down cars you would never think it would (that's in the Advanced Run Group). Once you learn the limits on a track in a safe environment, you can have more fun on the street knowing you are nowhere near the limits of the car's capabilities.
Last edited by Keith@APR; 08-06-2010 at 11:24 AM.
09-02-2010, 08:40 PM
#43
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Wife takes it back!
Interesting development with our S4: I am obsessive about the steering wheel being level when the car is on the straightaway. Ours was just a little off, so I asked the dealer to fix it when I took it in for the 5K service. They found the rear alignment was off a little as well.
Soon after, we took a road trip up to Lake Tahoe through the eastern Sierras. My wife drove it and decided it handles and corners great, as fine as her M3 ever did. I'm no mechanic but I am theorizing that the rear misalignment gave the sport differential a problem on the curves.
Anyway, now we both love the S4, which is good because we sold both my Avant and her M3.
Soon after, we took a road trip up to Lake Tahoe through the eastern Sierras. My wife drove it and decided it handles and corners great, as fine as her M3 ever did. I'm no mechanic but I am theorizing that the rear misalignment gave the sport differential a problem on the curves.
Anyway, now we both love the S4, which is good because we sold both my Avant and her M3.
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