Interesting article on S4 hp and weight...
05-13-2010, 09:22 AM
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Perhaps i did this too personally, since you state everyone is discussing peak hp. Although some might be talking about peak hp, not everyone is, as you say. And, some of the "peak hp" discussion was centered around how Audi marketed their power ratings on their website, and in their brochures. Your assumption that "everyone thinks that the peak hp number detemines speed" is what was inaccurate.
As for debates, my Cobra comment serves a point of reference. Regardless of your opinion regarding the platform, the S4 is more of the anomaly for performance figures when compared to other cars and their performance figures. I am well aware of all the many variables that play into acceleration times and numbers--bottom line-- 333, regardless of a "sleeperville" torque curve (despite it maxing out at 307 on your chart), is not going to push a 4000+ car into 12sec./109+ territory---the 109 being the more intriguing number, and that's more hp related. The curves are the curves, and if the peak hp is being understated, then it is relatively safe to conclude that the entire curve is assumed to be less than what it actually is too.
as an aside, the video you posted still has unknown variables that can affect the outcomes of the races we see here too.
I don't believe anyone ever disputed the application of torque (and rpms). It's just the numbers quoted by Audi, and the number typically presented to the public is the peak hp number. Most consumers haven't a clue if they had to read a dyno chart and understand "power under the curve."
As for debates, my Cobra comment serves a point of reference. Regardless of your opinion regarding the platform, the S4 is more of the anomaly for performance figures when compared to other cars and their performance figures. I am well aware of all the many variables that play into acceleration times and numbers--bottom line-- 333, regardless of a "sleeperville" torque curve (despite it maxing out at 307 on your chart), is not going to push a 4000+ car into 12sec./109+ territory---the 109 being the more intriguing number, and that's more hp related. The curves are the curves, and if the peak hp is being understated, then it is relatively safe to conclude that the entire curve is assumed to be less than what it actually is too.
as an aside, the video you posted still has unknown variables that can affect the outcomes of the races we see here too.
I don't believe anyone ever disputed the application of torque (and rpms). It's just the numbers quoted by Audi, and the number typically presented to the public is the peak hp number. Most consumers haven't a clue if they had to read a dyno chart and understand "power under the curve."
05-16-2010, 05:58 PM
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Perhaps i did this too personally, since you state everyone is discussing peak hp. Although some might be talking about peak hp, not everyone is, as you say. And, some of the "peak hp" discussion was centered around how Audi marketed their power ratings on their website, and in their brochures. Your assumption that "everyone thinks that the peak hp number detemines speed" is what was inaccurate.
As for debates, my Cobra comment serves a point of reference. Regardless of your opinion regarding the platform, the S4 is more of the anomaly for performance figures when compared to other cars and their performance figures. I am well aware of all the many variables that play into acceleration times and numbers--bottom line-- 333, regardless of a "sleeperville" torque curve (despite it maxing out at 307 on your chart), is not going to push a 4000+ car into 12sec./109+ territory---the 109 being the more intriguing number, and that's more hp related. The curves are the curves, and if the peak hp is being understated, then it is relatively safe to conclude that the entire curve is assumed to be less than what it actually is too.
as an aside, the video you posted still has unknown variables that can affect the outcomes of the races we see here too.
I don't believe anyone ever disputed the application of torque (and rpms). It's just the numbers quoted by Audi, and the number typically presented to the public is the peak hp number. Most consumers haven't a clue if they had to read a dyno chart and understand "power under the curve."
As for debates, my Cobra comment serves a point of reference. Regardless of your opinion regarding the platform, the S4 is more of the anomaly for performance figures when compared to other cars and their performance figures. I am well aware of all the many variables that play into acceleration times and numbers--bottom line-- 333, regardless of a "sleeperville" torque curve (despite it maxing out at 307 on your chart), is not going to push a 4000+ car into 12sec./109+ territory---the 109 being the more intriguing number, and that's more hp related. The curves are the curves, and if the peak hp is being understated, then it is relatively safe to conclude that the entire curve is assumed to be less than what it actually is too.
as an aside, the video you posted still has unknown variables that can affect the outcomes of the races we see here too.
I don't believe anyone ever disputed the application of torque (and rpms). It's just the numbers quoted by Audi, and the number typically presented to the public is the peak hp number. Most consumers haven't a clue if they had to read a dyno chart and understand "power under the curve."
With respect to the B8 S4, it's certainly under-rated. My guess is close to 350-355hp peak and about 340-350 torques with a bitching curve. Don't forget though that 12.9 @ 109 time isn't the standard...it's the outlier so far.
Look at the B6 S4 tested by MotorTrend. It ran 13.4@106mph. Outlier. It only had 340hp and 302 torques...and nowhere near as nice a curve as your cars. it shoudl never have run that fast with a 50/50 torque split, quattro TorSen AWD and 3850 lbs of heft. But it did.
Further the 1/4 mile time was just about the same as the slower B8 S4 times...MotorTrend/Car&Driver/Road&Track B8 S4 quarter mile times recorded late 09/early 2010 were very similar to 13.4/106. Does that mean that your cars only have about 340hp/302tq? Well they weigh 100lbs more, so maybe they have a few more. As we've seen from dynos your torque curve is better, and your peak power isn't there high in the rpm range, so your calculated hp numbers are probably lower than 340. Your torque is probably higher than 302.
You could easily make this erroneous decision if you compare only outliers.
05-25-2010, 06:06 AM
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drive by fact and reason
deadly poison to the overzealous
When you're done being funny, I'd love to hear your reply to the facts.
deadly poison to the overzealous
When you're done being funny, I'd love to hear your reply to the facts.
With respect to the B8 S4, it's certainly under-rated. My guess is close to 350-355hp peak and about 340-350 torques with a bitching curve. Don't forget though that 12.9 @ 109 time isn't the standard...it's the outlier so far.
Look at the B6 S4 tested by MotorTrend. It ran 13.4@106mph. Outlier. It only had 340hp and 302 torques...and nowhere near as nice a curve as your cars. it shoudl never have run that fast with a 50/50 torque split, quattro TorSen AWD and 3850 lbs of heft. But it did.
Further the 1/4 mile time was just about the same as the slower B8 S4 times...MotorTrend/Car&Driver/Road&Track B8 S4 quarter mile times recorded late 09/early 2010 were very similar to 13.4/106. Does that mean that your cars only have about 340hp/302tq? Well they weigh 100lbs more, so maybe they have a few more. As we've seen from dynos your torque curve is better, and your peak power isn't there high in the rpm range, so your calculated hp numbers are probably lower than 340. Your torque is probably higher than 302.
You could easily make this erroneous decision if you compare only outliers.
Look at the B6 S4 tested by MotorTrend. It ran 13.4@106mph. Outlier. It only had 340hp and 302 torques...and nowhere near as nice a curve as your cars. it shoudl never have run that fast with a 50/50 torque split, quattro TorSen AWD and 3850 lbs of heft. But it did.
Further the 1/4 mile time was just about the same as the slower B8 S4 times...MotorTrend/Car&Driver/Road&Track B8 S4 quarter mile times recorded late 09/early 2010 were very similar to 13.4/106. Does that mean that your cars only have about 340hp/302tq? Well they weigh 100lbs more, so maybe they have a few more. As we've seen from dynos your torque curve is better, and your peak power isn't there high in the rpm range, so your calculated hp numbers are probably lower than 340. Your torque is probably higher than 302.
You could easily make this erroneous decision if you compare only outliers.
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bageldog
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08-20-2002 04:55 AM
What determines a car's acceleration? It seems to not depend on peak hp, tq, or even hp to lbs ratio
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