Interesting... C&D M3 vs. RS5 vs. CTS-V
07-27-2010, 06:47 PM
#21
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I received the C&D with this comparison today. The RS5 lost by a significant margin and was knocked for artificial steering feel and a general lack of excitement compared to the other two. However, I think the CTS coupe is downright awkward looking and wouldn't want one, 556 hp and all.
07-27-2010, 07:31 PM
#22
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If it uses any of the steering hardware from the B8 A4, then they're right on about the artificial steering feel. All the B8 loaners I've had, have horrible steering response. It's nonlinearly variable with speed, and you can feel it change the level of assist while accelerating out of a turn. It goes from over-boosted to just plain heavy and numb in a 20mpg speed delta. The worst part is that it feels the same in both directions, meaning that turning into a tighter circle feels the same as unloading the wheels. It's like driving a video game.
07-27-2010, 11:14 PM
#23
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Have to agree. I'm really disappointed with Audi at the moment. Didn't they bother to test the RS5 against the M3 during development? It's not like the M3 is a brand new car. Audi may as well have re-released the B7 RS4 as it seemed to do better against the M3 than this *new* RS5. Audi seems to be going backwards.
I've had my S5 since 2007 waiting for this "mythical" RS5 to come out. They have had years to really develop this car and best the aging M3. Not only is the M3 still the king (unlike the previous B7 RS4 that took the crown over the E46 M3) but the new upcoming M3 will have a turbocharged engine which will trounce the RS5 that is still 2 years away from the US market. So basically 5 years later we will have an aged RS model that is obsolete.
Audi could have easily anticipated the move and released the RS5 with forced induction and respectable torque. Seems the competition is releasing cars with more and more torque (and on RWD) while Audi is lagging behind. Even the 335is has substantially more torque than the S5 now.
After the disappointing TT-RS, I can't understand why Quattro GmbH would allow their name on a car that isn't able to come to the market and at least beat the competition for at least '1' model year. In this price range, we are not looking for 3rd best or an honorable mention. We want the top car in it's class - at the minimum when it's first introduced...
I've had my S5 since 2007 waiting for this "mythical" RS5 to come out. They have had years to really develop this car and best the aging M3. Not only is the M3 still the king (unlike the previous B7 RS4 that took the crown over the E46 M3) but the new upcoming M3 will have a turbocharged engine which will trounce the RS5 that is still 2 years away from the US market. So basically 5 years later we will have an aged RS model that is obsolete.
Audi could have easily anticipated the move and released the RS5 with forced induction and respectable torque. Seems the competition is releasing cars with more and more torque (and on RWD) while Audi is lagging behind. Even the 335is has substantially more torque than the S5 now.
After the disappointing TT-RS, I can't understand why Quattro GmbH would allow their name on a car that isn't able to come to the market and at least beat the competition for at least '1' model year. In this price range, we are not looking for 3rd best or an honorable mention. We want the top car in it's class - at the minimum when it's first introduced...
The RS5 the car I was waiting for....... not so sure anymore. Several European test have also confirmed the Car and Driver results:
Car and Driver: Audi RS5 vs. BMW M3 vs. Cadillac CTS-V
Car and Driver ventured out to the German Autobahn and the 'Ring to test the three hottest sport coupes out today. The Car and Driver test team burned up 2,000 dollars of fuel testing the coupe's 178 mph top speed. Car and Driver loved the RS5's gearbox, the Cadillac's power and M3's steering and the general performance level of all three was outstanding with 0 to 60 arriving in around 4 second flat and the "slowest" ran a 12.5 second 1/4 mile. Here are the ratings:
Third. Audi RS5. Car and Driver appreciated the RS5's 7 speed S-Tronic gearbox and 450 horsepower V8 but its 4,000 pound curb weight along with steering modes that never achieve satisfaction put it in third.
Second. Cadillac CTS-V. Car and Driver found the CTS-V the most stable on the Autobahn and the supercharged V8 most powerful, yet a little too quiet. C/D also liked the Cadillac's steering and brakes but was disappointed by its interior and Recaro seats.
First. BMW M3. The lightest in test (3,600 pounds) M3 with the competition package had the best handling in the test. C/D also liked the M3's V8 soundtrack. The M3 was the shiftiest at high speed on the Autobahn.
Car and Driver: Audi RS5 vs. BMW M3 vs. Cadillac CTS-V
Car and Driver ventured out to the German Autobahn and the 'Ring to test the three hottest sport coupes out today. The Car and Driver test team burned up 2,000 dollars of fuel testing the coupe's 178 mph top speed. Car and Driver loved the RS5's gearbox, the Cadillac's power and M3's steering and the general performance level of all three was outstanding with 0 to 60 arriving in around 4 second flat and the "slowest" ran a 12.5 second 1/4 mile. Here are the ratings:
Third. Audi RS5. Car and Driver appreciated the RS5's 7 speed S-Tronic gearbox and 450 horsepower V8 but its 4,000 pound curb weight along with steering modes that never achieve satisfaction put it in third.
Second. Cadillac CTS-V. Car and Driver found the CTS-V the most stable on the Autobahn and the supercharged V8 most powerful, yet a little too quiet. C/D also liked the Cadillac's steering and brakes but was disappointed by its interior and Recaro seats.
First. BMW M3. The lightest in test (3,600 pounds) M3 with the competition package had the best handling in the test. C/D also liked the M3's V8 soundtrack. The M3 was the shiftiest at high speed on the Autobahn.
07-28-2010, 05:21 AM
#24
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i don't necessarily agree. The RS5 point differential is based mostly on price, and subjective attributes. Sure, the steering is less than the M3... the S4, IIRC, didn't score that well with steering either, but we all still love it.
The performance figures are pretty damn good- how many drivers will notice the diff in .1 to 60? The slalom figures, for a nose-heavy car, far exceeded my expectations.
I still believe the RS4 (when/if...) is the proper comparison to the M3. To me the RS5 should be compared against the 6-series. It's a grand tourer, IMO. The RS4 is more of the barnstormer.
I think Audi did an excellent job with this car. Who knows, since we're at least a year from US rollout (possibly with the front-end makoever timeline), they may tweak the power a bit, or actually put a new engine (FI)....
Steve
The performance figures are pretty damn good- how many drivers will notice the diff in .1 to 60? The slalom figures, for a nose-heavy car, far exceeded my expectations.
I still believe the RS4 (when/if...) is the proper comparison to the M3. To me the RS5 should be compared against the 6-series. It's a grand tourer, IMO. The RS4 is more of the barnstormer.
I think Audi did an excellent job with this car. Who knows, since we're at least a year from US rollout (possibly with the front-end makoever timeline), they may tweak the power a bit, or actually put a new engine (FI)....
Steve
07-30-2010, 08:59 PM
#26
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As you mention, Im sure they took price point into account, but at that price that an M3 or RS5 commands as it is, I would be more than willing to pay a few thousand more to have a superior car. It SHOULD be the superior car since its more than a few years newer than the competition. Its a nice car but I think that Audi missed a golden opportunity to elevate the brand. So many people have been waiting for this RS model for years and for it to come out just as a worse choice to whats already on the market is disappointing. I have had 10 Audis and for the first time, Im not excited by its RS offerings. Audi's terminology considers the RS line its ultimate expression, class leading. I havent seen a review that confirms that yet.
I think this is the first video comparison:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ_RT5221rk
I think this is the first video comparison:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ_RT5221rk
i don't necessarily agree. The RS5 point differential is based mostly on price, and subjective attributes. Sure, the steering is less than the M3... the S4, IIRC, didn't score that well with steering either, but we all still love it.
The performance figures are pretty damn good- how many drivers will notice the diff in .1 to 60? The slalom figures, for a nose-heavy car, far exceeded my expectations.
I still believe the RS4 (when/if...) is the proper comparison to the M3. To me the RS5 should be compared against the 6-series. It's a grand tourer, IMO. The RS4 is more of the barnstormer.
I think Audi did an excellent job with this car. Who knows, since we're at least a year from US rollout (possibly with the front-end makoever timeline), they may tweak the power a bit, or actually put a new engine (FI)....
Steve
The performance figures are pretty damn good- how many drivers will notice the diff in .1 to 60? The slalom figures, for a nose-heavy car, far exceeded my expectations.
I still believe the RS4 (when/if...) is the proper comparison to the M3. To me the RS5 should be compared against the 6-series. It's a grand tourer, IMO. The RS4 is more of the barnstormer.
I think Audi did an excellent job with this car. Who knows, since we're at least a year from US rollout (possibly with the front-end makoever timeline), they may tweak the power a bit, or actually put a new engine (FI)....
Steve
Last edited by Quattrings; 08-02-2010 at 11:20 AM.
07-30-2010, 09:09 PM
#27
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Great reviews about the engine, it really is an engine that Id like to see offered in more of the Audi line-up. Reviews Ive read are disappointed with the steering. Maybe its the Haldex or maybe its just that the TT is a FWD design that influences this characteristic. We know that Quattro GmbH can build excellent steering cars as witnessed with the R8 and RS4, and we know that Audi can do it (latest A6 and S4 beat BMW's comparable offerings) but the ball was dropped with the TT-RS (and the RS5). I would purchase the TT-RS if priced right, but I would go in expecting the steering to be numb and un-involving.
I really wanted the RS5, but at this point, Im leaning to beating the 2 year wait and going the M3 route. I just dont believe that the RS5 is a better car than the M3 is - and that is hard for me to say here. In the end the RS5, doesnt seem that it can overcome its hefty weight and parasitic drive train, and lack of involvement comparatively speaking.
I really wanted the RS5, but at this point, Im leaning to beating the 2 year wait and going the M3 route. I just dont believe that the RS5 is a better car than the M3 is - and that is hard for me to say here. In the end the RS5, doesnt seem that it can overcome its hefty weight and parasitic drive train, and lack of involvement comparatively speaking.
Last edited by Quattrings; 07-31-2010 at 07:04 AM.
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