gmermel

I got pretty depressed about the DSG performance as it relates to the smoothness of shifts that can be attained with an MT. It is difficult to get imperceptible engagement, which is my goal with every MT shift I make. I even had my car checked to make sure it was in spec. Being "stuck" with the tranny, I have been ruminating on the topic.

As an update, I took a 500 mile drive today and got to play with the DSG manual mode for quite a while. How you manage the accelerator makes a massive difference in how it shifts.

For instance, say I'm doing 75 at 2000+ rpm's in 7th and I want to go to passing speed. I found that I wanted 4th gear at 5500 rpm's for the best response. If I accelerated to the slightest degree as I dropped gears sequentially (at a rythm of about every half second), the car lurched forward into 5th and then lurched even harder into 4th.

If I downshifted to 4th similarly but stayed off any increase in throttle, and then applied throttle AFTER full engagement, the the transmission was smooth as butter. The only problem I had was that the throttle response is touchy giving a sense of "launch". This isn't a transmission issue, and a MT would allow me to make up for it through clutch engagement, but still, the shifts were pretty remarkable.

The same type of care, using a different "technique", worked for 1st to 2nd upshift. Just "doing it" getting away from stoplights going easy and shifting at 3500+/- rpms, I got the type of shifts that made your teeth clench when you were teaching someone a MT. But if I made sure that I added throttle at a precisely constant rate the 1st to 2nd shift was awfully nice.

What I can say is that with work I was able to manage some very (and I mean very) impressive performance from the DSG. Whether I will get to where I want to be is an open question. But
I am consoling myself that there is a learning curve on the DSG, and we all can remember that there was a big one on the MT.....

Hard Driver

Well I too have found that it takes a little time to understand the DSG.

Still don't quite understand how you seem to want 5500 RPM to start a pass, I find the powerband is excellent at 3000 RPM. If I am on the highway at 75 and want to pass, a quick flick on the left paddle to drop to 6th gives me all the power I need for any pass.

I also drove a manual for 25 years before this car and an impercievable manual shift is not my normal, especially when trying to achieve performance. If in a manual and I tried to drop from 7th to 4th on the highway while hitting the gas for a quick pass and do it with an imperceivable shift, there is no way I could do that after 25 years of experience.

Generally I think that the DSG shifts smoother than I do in a manual. Maybe you slide the clutch more and get smoother shifts than I do. I have found that in a few instances, I would be smoother than the DSG and it can be jerky, like if you are going down an off ramp with a yield sign, have to yield to traffic and then hit the gas from a near stop, then the DSG jerks the car. But like you said, if you are gentle with the gas peddle until the cluth is engaged and then go, it is much smoother.

gmermel

I might have been being too gentle on the throttle to smooth out the shifts, but it seemed to me that dropping to 5th at lower RPMs didn't give me the ooomph I wanted. And that doggone kickdown switch has me spooked about flooring it. Those shifts are really horrendous.......

As for keeping MT freeway downshifts smooth, you are correct, I made sure I engaged in the lower gear that I wanted before I accelerated.

I will submit that passing on a freeway is not anything like track driving. The freeway allows total control whereas competition requires maximal power delivery.

Played a bit more today. I think a key is to handle the DSG like a verrrrrrry sensitive MT, minus the clutch. Feathering the gas ever so slightly and for a split second at engagement of the gears can be even smoother than with a MT. Probably because the DSG re-engages with greater immediacy than I can on a true manual, so the loss of momentum at shift is non-existant instead of a few tenths of a second.

The other thing I'm noticing is to combine the feathering of the throttle with listening to the engine. Again, in a much more subtle manner than with a manual, you can balance when and how to feather the throttle depending on whether you are shifting at low or high RPM's. The interesting thing is that it works in a kind of reverse way than with a MT, though, since you are hearing the gears catch ever so slightly, while in a MT the technique is to control that re-engagement using your ears along with the seat of your pants.

Couple of questions:

Am I making any sense whatsoever?
If I am, should we continue this thread as we find nuances we think can help each other?

Otherwise, I'll keep my experiments to myself.......

will13k7

I expected the DSG transmission to be at least as smooth as a normal auto but without the power loss due to the torque converter, and to have lighting quick shifts. 2 out of 3 isn't bad, but given Audi's reputation for smoothness, it was a bit disappointing to have such rough 2-to-1 downshifts after a quick stop at a stop sign or when in traffic when not coming to a complete stop before accelerating. It's not so disappointing that I would sell the car for another, but something I hope they fix. When I consider my next car, it will be something to weigh. As for recommendations, I wouldn't recommend this transmission to anyone but performance enthusiasts, those who just want a faster auto A4 and not willing to put up with or learn to work around the DSG quirks should probably consider a different car until the kinks are worked out. It is a little annoying being so careful with the throttle to avoid abrupt and hard shifts. Since the car has drive-by-wire throttle, the car be able should figure out what level of throttle is needed to smooth things out instead of us, at least in comfort or auto mode. In dynamic mode I wouldn't mind a little roughness that I could control via throttle, but when driving around town in comfort or auto, I would like it to be smoother in the 2-to-1 shift. From what I read in these forums, it sounded like it used to be much rougher and they smoothed it out some. Maybe its at a good trade-off point for performance enthusiasts, just not your average driver.

rkdiddy

Well stated - I agree with you 100%.

gmermel

My disappointment is that I didn't notice this during my test drive, though if I had I might have thought it was something I did, because I also anticipated the smoothness you did. Particularly because my VW DSG is impressively smooth.

Interesting point about the e-throttle. What I've been describing doing with the throttle is to a degree what you are suggesting they do with software.

But what we got is what we got. I won't sell the car either.

What I am going to do is to approach the DSG like I did the MT back in the day, and continue to learn how to manage it smoothly. That will make the issue a challenge instead of a downer.

Christo123

I've had a few similar issues with this DSG, lurching, hard shifts, and some clunking. IMO Audi has never really made a smooth transmission. This is my 3rd Audi, I had a B5 and B6 A4 with the tiptronic AT and they were absolutely horrible. They clunked, slammed and constantly hunted for the right gear so much I got rid of these cars. BMW's ZF transmissions were the best for smoothness

gmermel

Well than where the H*** were all of us when I made my s-tronic decision? It would have certainly cued me to go back for that second, aggressive, focused test drive (my nearest dealer is 2 hours away, so it isn't like I am as lazy as it sounds).

I paid close attention to the DSG/MT threads when I placed my order. The prevailing arguments did not involve the DSG smoothness at all. In fact the general sense was the DSG was SO smooth that die-hard MT people were willing to go with it. The argument in favor of the MT was that the connection to the car was enhanced, NOT that the smoothness the MT allowed was superior.

Christo123

I'm at 15k mile now and I do believe my DSG is getting smoother. BTW,the DSG is far superior to the previously mentioned old Tiptronic AT's.

I also test drove the S4 twice before I purchased and I was not able to feel/notice all the nuances with it in two 10 minute test drives

NWS4Guy

Honestly, I can't say I experience anything at all like what is being said here. I stopped commenting on this, because I was said to be a fanboi and must have some magical DSG on mine if it never hesitates and shifts smoothly every single time. I have had other B8 S4 guys locally drive mine and ride along as I drove, and all agree it's incredibly non-intrusive and smooth.

I have yet to have someone who says their DSG shifts hard and acts clunky be in the area to try mine out though, so if anyone complaining is in the PacNW area, shoot me a PM and we can meet. What is being descibed would irritate me to no end if mine did it, but it doesn't.