T.Anderson

540i 6-speed or S4?? NT

Wesley

they are both great! I have an S4 now.......
If money is no object, $80K will get you a new M5 or you could wait until 2001 when the horsepower wars really start heating up.

Wes

Mike

The 540i is much more car than a S4. It should be considering it runs about $18,000 more than the S4.

You get a 4.4 liter normally aspirated V8 in a much larger car that holds four comfortably. You can't compare that to a 2.7 liter pressurized V6 in a much smaller vehicle. Yes, the Quattro is great, but the BMW has an excellent traction and stability system that works in everything but snow.

This is actually a ridiculous question. Anybody would pick the 540i Sport.

Now, if you are talking S4 vs. M3... take the S4.

5er

A 5 series puts you in another class. You won't see a whole lot of "boy racers" with their caps on backward driving the 540i. If you've got the bucks, the 540i is the ticket... and close enough to the M5 in performance that it seems like a bargain. The 5 series will look great several years from now and isn't due for a total redesign until the '03 model year. The S4 redesign will probably come in '02. Unless you live and play in the snow, the S4 doesn't have any advantages over a 540, except for the price.

ReedM

Why do you think it is a ridiculous question? Sorry, but I fall into the group that wouldn't buy a 540i over an S4, even with less room. As good as BMW's are, a large part of the country does get snow occasionally or, even worse, ice storms. Ever experienced really heavy rainstorms in the South, particularly after a dry spell? The oil and/or dirt sits up on top of the pavement until it finally washes off. In a light rain, it's just like driving on ice. Under those conditions, even an excellent RWD BMW, even with traction control, is not adequate nor near as good as an AWD car, IMHO. One wheel getting traction will never give you anywhere near the traction that four wheels will, whether accelerating or stopping using engine braking, especially if you're going downhill, although ABS does help a lot.

Did you see the Audi commercial several years ago where they slicked up a ski jump and then compared the quattro with RWD,s? Remember how well the RWD's did versus the quattro? Personally, I would rather be the one crawling up the hill, rather than just spinning my "traction control" rear wheels.

The best traction control system on a RWD, regardless of make, will never be as good as an AWD system, snow or not. Quattro improves control and traction under all conditions, including rain, and even on dry pavement. Four wheels connected to the engine beat one wheel anytime, anywhere. Even in racing, RWD is not necessarily superior. Otherwise, why did the racing Audi quattros beat everybody and then get outlawed?

While the BMW 540i is an excellent "good conditions" car, I would never get one over any quattro, as some of the weather I experience driving could not be considered "good" at any time and I like to continue on to my destination, not slide off the road. Now, if BMW would bring over the "5" series AWD I heard about in Europe several years ago, I would seriously consider one. In the meantime, if I need more room, I'll get a bigger quattro, even if it's dry weather performance is not as good as the 540i. I believe in being as safe as possible, particularly in bad weather.

This is NOT meant to cause flames, etc. I just think not enough people know just how much better the quattro AWD system is over a RWD "traction control" system, primarily because BMW, Mercedes, etc. want people to believe it so they can sell their cars. It's just not true, folks. I'd like to be there when a 540i owner gets "caught" in a freak snow/ice storm. Have fun trying to get home safely then, while we quattro owners are just laughing and enjoying the drive.

As for a naturally aspirated engine being superior to a pressurized engine, just why do you contend that it's superior? Do you have a basis for your statement or is it just personal opinion? Natural aspirated larger engines are NOT necessarily superior to smaller pressurized engines that are properly engineered. Horsepower is horsepower, regardless of how it's generated, although the power curves may differ. If you are going to throw out statements, please do us the courtesy of providing FACTS to back up your opinions. Otherwise, you only mis-inform people.

If you lived at altitude, you'd really appreciate the pressurized engine and it's ability to make-up for the altitude horsepower loss (as Audi did at the Pike's Peak Hill Climb, where they learned to make the "pop-off" valve respond to changes in barometric pressure, so the engine would produce more boost as they went higher to keep the HP output the same - all Audi turbo cars have incorporated it for years, I am told.). Let's both take our cars up to the Eisenhower Tunnel in Colorado (11,000 feet) or go on to Vail,with an additional high altitude pass to cross each way (assuming summer weather conditions to make it fair, which sometimes include snow, too). I bet my S4 will be a LOT more responsive and make more horsepower than a 540i. It also won't be working as hard. Even in Denver (5,280 feet) you can tell a major difference with a turbo-charged car. Admittedly, if you live at or near sea level (under 2,000 feet or so), it really doesn't matter that much.

Even if you don't live at altitude, there is nothing wrong with making horsepower with a turbo-charger system on a smaller engine. I would be willing to compare the S4's 2.7 turbo to the 540i's 4.4 V-8 anytime. I happen to really like the "turbo" experience. There's nothing like the feeling you get when the turbos "spool up" and make boost. When they aren't, they're just idling and you get pretty good fuel economy.

If I'm going to have a car that's only good in dry weather, I'll take a convertible, please (even a BMW) and preferably a true "sports car". Then I can justify having to take it home if the weather gets or looks bad. Otherwise, give me a true "all weather" car, like my Audi S4 "Quattro". My passengers and I would rather be a little cramped and get there in one piece.

Marcus Frost

Audi got banned from the BTCC for having an unfair advantage with Quattro. However, all the cars in the BTCC are FWD. So, the fact that Audi got banned for beating FWD cars in the BTCC is irrelevant when comparing AWD to RWD. Just a point.

540i 6-Speed is around $20k more than an S4. An S4 with $20k of mods is an unbelievable machine. New suspension, tires, exhaust, 400+ hp kit, weight reduction, etc. I'm sorry, but VERY few cars could touch you with an S4 like that. Especially not a 540.

That's about it. Just wanted to make those points.

-mF
99.5 1.8TQM [ GIAC Chip / Borla Exhaust ]

Mike

I live in Southern California where we haven't seen rain since November 21 (that's not even unusual). It's dry, dusty, and was nearly 80 degrees today. I have never driven my car in snow or ice (I take my 4Runner to the snow every winter so I know how crappy part-time four-wheel-drive is compared to Quattro). I can count the times I have turned on my wipers in the rain.

I've got a 328i Sport, my father who is almost 60 (and still loves manual transmissions) has a 540i Sport. I have driven the S4, and the 540i, and just about everything else.

You are mostly correct in your statements about wet weather. Your claims of better braking in a Quattro are simplified.

Your horsepower comparisions are a bit weak. Normally aspirtated engines with cubic inches are more pleasant to drive (in my opinion) that a stressed turbo motor of small displacement. Sorry, my opinion. I also like an inline-6 over a V6. My opinion again.

Yes, you loose horsepower as altitude increases. Turbo is better for those conditions. Turbos are also better in the cold weather when they can breathe cold oxygen-laden air. No contest.

The original vague question was "540i or S4?" without any text. There was no specification of where the car was to live, or if it was ever going to see the track. He wanted some opinions.

This board is all opinions. So are all the magazines. Comparing the 540i to the S4 is like comparing apples to oranges... it's just not done. Sorry.

By the way, I'm looking forward to replacing my 328i with an S4 in a few months. They are very nice sport sedans.

Reed M

I guess I should have checked my facts before I made that comment. I was not aware that all the cars in that series were FWD. I was making a general reference I have heard that RWD cars are more responsive and easier to "drift" when racing than AWD, which supposedly don't have the same control at the limit. All of this is just supposition and heresay actually, though, so I guess I shouldn't have made the point at all. Thanks for clearing it up and making sure the facts got out. That is what is important, isn't it?

BTW, how are your experiences with the Garrett chip? Thanks.

RM

I had the choice and picked the S4. To me it was an easy choice since I like the S4 much better than the 540i which I test drove on 2 different occasions. I would probably have bought a 540i if I had not driven an S4 before deciding. The money is not the reason. I guess I just like turbos. Also I really didn't need a lot of room in the backseat since I have another family sedan with plenty of room.
RM

TRW

Not true, the BMW's were rear wheel drive in the BTCC before they pulled out.(NT)