AWE headers, removed and both headers cracked weld where pipes meet flange, #1 DS #3PS. Bad welds
07-25-2006, 05:38 AM
#33
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This is not a "bad weld" issue. And I will deal with this one directly.
There are two ways that our headers have been seen to fail:
Headers made under our "old" manufacturing director were not flycut on the header to head flange. Since we separated this director from our manufacturing division, we have gotten back about 7-8 sets of headers that have failed at the flange/collector area.
Here is why: during the welding process, the flange warps a few thousandths of an inch, and when the header is bolted to the head, the flange is forced flat again. On a long tube header, this is not such a critical issue, but since the rearward most tube on this design is so short, there is a stress point. The longer tubes can heat cycle without causing an issue, but the shorter tube does not have as much forgiveness, ultimately resulting in a crack where it meets the flange or the collector.
Our fix for this has been to simply flycut the header flange in our CNC mill until it is perfectly flat. This eliminates the stress issue when the header is bolted down. Since changing this manufacturing method, we have had zero failures.
We have also replaced or repaired ALL headers that have come back to us with this problem, with no argument.
The second way that we have seen our headers fail is at the secondary to collector connection. This failure comes from two issues: improper turbo install that allows the passenger side oil feed line to hit the header, ultimately resulting in a crack as the header cannot fully expand/contract during heat cycling. There is a few mm of rotational play at the turbo to header flange, so the installer needs to pay attention that when the turbo is bolted down, it has not caused contact with the header.
The headers can also fail at this area from excessively worn engine mounts, or improperly installed downpipes, causing the headers to twist with the engine rotation.
We have received back 3-4 sets of headers with this type of failure, and they always exhibit witness marks on the secondary tube, showing contact during operation, or a spiral type of metal tearing, showing a torsional force on the header. This is not a warranty issue.
We absolutely stand behind our products 100%, and I think we have shown this forum that many times over the years. We had all intentions of replacing these headers from your description of the issue. If the real problem here is that you want replacements sent out ahead of time, contact me directly and I will make sure it happens. It is not normally the way we do it with any potential warranty issue, but there exceptions to every rule.
Headers made under our "old" manufacturing director were not flycut on the header to head flange. Since we separated this director from our manufacturing division, we have gotten back about 7-8 sets of headers that have failed at the flange/collector area.
Here is why: during the welding process, the flange warps a few thousandths of an inch, and when the header is bolted to the head, the flange is forced flat again. On a long tube header, this is not such a critical issue, but since the rearward most tube on this design is so short, there is a stress point. The longer tubes can heat cycle without causing an issue, but the shorter tube does not have as much forgiveness, ultimately resulting in a crack where it meets the flange or the collector.
Our fix for this has been to simply flycut the header flange in our CNC mill until it is perfectly flat. This eliminates the stress issue when the header is bolted down. Since changing this manufacturing method, we have had zero failures.
We have also replaced or repaired ALL headers that have come back to us with this problem, with no argument.
The second way that we have seen our headers fail is at the secondary to collector connection. This failure comes from two issues: improper turbo install that allows the passenger side oil feed line to hit the header, ultimately resulting in a crack as the header cannot fully expand/contract during heat cycling. There is a few mm of rotational play at the turbo to header flange, so the installer needs to pay attention that when the turbo is bolted down, it has not caused contact with the header.
The headers can also fail at this area from excessively worn engine mounts, or improperly installed downpipes, causing the headers to twist with the engine rotation.
We have received back 3-4 sets of headers with this type of failure, and they always exhibit witness marks on the secondary tube, showing contact during operation, or a spiral type of metal tearing, showing a torsional force on the header. This is not a warranty issue.
We absolutely stand behind our products 100%, and I think we have shown this forum that many times over the years. We had all intentions of replacing these headers from your description of the issue. If the real problem here is that you want replacements sent out ahead of time, contact me directly and I will make sure it happens. It is not normally the way we do it with any potential warranty issue, but there exceptions to every rule.
07-25-2006, 05:49 AM
#37
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You can remove the headers/manifolds and the turbos will be suspended in air.
The oil and coolant lines as well as the inlet tubes that connect to the heads via a bracket take almost all weight stress off the headers, as well as the downpipe brackets.
We have studied this design several times over, but a basic manufacturing method that was "overlooked" by our former manufacturing director is the sole cause of this problem. I identified the issue and implemented a solution quite a while ago and there have been no issues on record since.
Please read this post:<ul><li><a href="https://forums.audiworld.com/s4/msgs/2421294.phtml">https://forums.audiworld.com/s4/msgs/2421294.phtml</a</li></ul>
We have studied this design several times over, but a basic manufacturing method that was "overlooked" by our former manufacturing director is the sole cause of this problem. I identified the issue and implemented a solution quite a while ago and there have been no issues on record since.
Please read this post:<ul><li><a href="https://forums.audiworld.com/s4/msgs/2421294.phtml">https://forums.audiworld.com/s4/msgs/2421294.phtml</a</li></ul>