Jason Teller, What was the "Unintended Acceleration fiasco?"
10-03-2000, 11:41 AM
#11
That was good for me when I got my A4 in '96. A lot of skeptics then, but I smirk at them now :)
I shall forever be Audiboy :P
Heck, I would have gotten an Audi Coupe earlier if I could afford it. In highschool/college and no money
Wait, that reveals my age
Aahh those people must lear how to drive an Automatic and not spill coffee on their laps he he
Heck, I would have gotten an Audi Coupe earlier if I could afford it. In highschool/college and no money
Wait, that reveals my age Aahh those people must lear how to drive an Automatic and not spill coffee on their laps he he
10-03-2000, 11:52 AM
#12
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"Unintended Acceleration " was in fall of '86. I remember because I had bought a 5000 S about 6
weeks before this was broadcast. This was probably the best (worst) example of yellow jounalism broadcast on tv.
Audi was just starting to build sales momentum in 85/86. The 5000 was on the Car & Driver 10 best list in 86. The larger Audi sales were coming at the expense of american cars i.e. Buick/Olds/Pontiac. The gas/brake pedals on the Audi were placed further to the left than on us cars, so some people stomped the gas pedal when they meant to step on the brake pedal. People that spent $20k+ (this was in '86) didn't want to admit that they screwed up...it must the cars fault! This was only an issue with auto trans cars.
The only positive that came out of this was that Audi was the first co to have a transmission interlock requiring the driver to have a foot on the brake pedal before getting out of park. They retrofitted all the cars.
There was NEVER a problem with the car/transmission..the problem was with the jerks at 60 minutes who bought viewers at the expense of Audi....and Audi owners who saw resale value go down the toilet.
Audi was just starting to build sales momentum in 85/86. The 5000 was on the Car & Driver 10 best list in 86. The larger Audi sales were coming at the expense of american cars i.e. Buick/Olds/Pontiac. The gas/brake pedals on the Audi were placed further to the left than on us cars, so some people stomped the gas pedal when they meant to step on the brake pedal. People that spent $20k+ (this was in '86) didn't want to admit that they screwed up...it must the cars fault! This was only an issue with auto trans cars.
The only positive that came out of this was that Audi was the first co to have a transmission interlock requiring the driver to have a foot on the brake pedal before getting out of park. They retrofitted all the cars.
There was NEVER a problem with the car/transmission..the problem was with the jerks at 60 minutes who bought viewers at the expense of Audi....and Audi owners who saw resale value go down the toilet.
10-03-2000, 12:19 PM
#13
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Pedal misapplication -- the other side of the story
Your characterization of the unintended acceleration fiasco as entirely due to driver error is a view not shared by many experts who have investigated the case. There have been numerous reports that the design of the controls of the Audi 5000 contributed to the tragedies. These reports note that the positioning of the pedals in relationship with the driver and in close proximity to one another made it more likely to confuse the two, especially in a panic situation. Moreover,the relative height of the pedals was apparently such that if one were to place their foot so that both pedals were pressed simultaneously and to the same height, the engine torque could overpower the brakes.
When Primetime Live investigated reports of unintended acceleration in some models of Jeep Cherokee, they found that those trucks had virtually the same pedal placement as the Audi 5000. (Here is a link talking about this: http://www.strategicsafety.com/library/si002.htm)
Having never driven an Audi 5000 nor the affected model of Cherokee, I'm haven't made any conclusions about whether these arguments are valid, but I in the interest of fairness I thought it important to mention them.<ul><li><a href="http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/8.87.html#subj4">http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/8.87.html#subj4</a</li></ul>
When Primetime Live investigated reports of unintended acceleration in some models of Jeep Cherokee, they found that those trucks had virtually the same pedal placement as the Audi 5000. (Here is a link talking about this: http://www.strategicsafety.com/library/si002.htm)
Having never driven an Audi 5000 nor the affected model of Cherokee, I'm haven't made any conclusions about whether these arguments are valid, but I in the interest of fairness I thought it important to mention them.<ul><li><a href="http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/8.87.html#subj4">http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/8.87.html#subj4</a</li></ul>
10-03-2000, 01:15 PM
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You left off the first part of the sentence - and I don't think you understand their assertion
the engine torque could overpower the brakes
No way. Try it.
//Greg
The first part of the sentence was "if one were to place their foot so that both pedals were pressed simultaneously and to the same height" What they are saying is that the pedals are too close together and the brake engagement point is lower than the accelerator -- in other words, if your foot is inadvertantly on both pedals simultaneously, the gas pedal could be floored, but the brake still not pressed far enough to engage with enough power to stop the car. Obviously, if you put one foot on the brake and the other on the gas, the brake is much stronger and will win every time.
No way. Try it.
//Greg
The first part of the sentence was "if one were to place their foot so that both pedals were pressed simultaneously and to the same height" What they are saying is that the pedals are too close together and the brake engagement point is lower than the accelerator -- in other words, if your foot is inadvertantly on both pedals simultaneously, the gas pedal could be floored, but the brake still not pressed far enough to engage with enough power to stop the car. Obviously, if you put one foot on the brake and the other on the gas, the brake is much stronger and will win every time.
10-03-2000, 01:39 PM
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That is why....
In addition to the park lockout feature that Cameron mentioned, Audi positions the gas and brake pedals at different heights and further apart. No mistaking the gas for the brake now. You are absolutely right when you say that those design features contributed to the problem.
The pedal placement has been changed and for the sole reason that the 'average' driver will panic and stab the gas instead of the brake. Well, you have to design them for the worst case, so out goes the fun factor for real driving enthusiasts.
Those of us who could easily blip throttle and match revs in downshifting on older Audis struggle and have to take adaptive methods/upgrades to do it now. In Europe, they didn't have this problem. They are used to driving these cars, with close pedals for shifting a manual well.
U.S. drivers as a majority, tend to be automatic trans. drivers, overall less skilled too. In Europe, the tests are tough, driving school is expensive and driving is a great priveledge. Here it is one's God given right....to drive like an idiot while talking on one's cell phone and drinking a latte, driving with one knee.
Sorry for the rant but Ferdinand Piech, while politically incorrect, was pretty much on target when he blamed it on the average American drivers. They just didn't have these issues in Europe.
I've seen one too many terrible drivers here to say he was wrong....for every good driver there's at least 100 who should be sent to real driving school and at least 20 who shouldn't have a license at all.
Whew. Sorry. I drive two plus hours a day in commuter hell and it just depresses me. Especially when I see some SUV going 90mph, swerving through traffic and then flips....killing one and maiming another seriously. Our drivers ed system in the U.S. is a disgrace. No lessons on real car control and what cars and trucks can and cannot do.
-C.
The pedal placement has been changed and for the sole reason that the 'average' driver will panic and stab the gas instead of the brake. Well, you have to design them for the worst case, so out goes the fun factor for real driving enthusiasts.
Those of us who could easily blip throttle and match revs in downshifting on older Audis struggle and have to take adaptive methods/upgrades to do it now. In Europe, they didn't have this problem. They are used to driving these cars, with close pedals for shifting a manual well.
U.S. drivers as a majority, tend to be automatic trans. drivers, overall less skilled too. In Europe, the tests are tough, driving school is expensive and driving is a great priveledge. Here it is one's God given right....to drive like an idiot while talking on one's cell phone and drinking a latte, driving with one knee.
Sorry for the rant but Ferdinand Piech, while politically incorrect, was pretty much on target when he blamed it on the average American drivers. They just didn't have these issues in Europe.
I've seen one too many terrible drivers here to say he was wrong....for every good driver there's at least 100 who should be sent to real driving school and at least 20 who shouldn't have a license at all.
Whew. Sorry. I drive two plus hours a day in commuter hell and it just depresses me. Especially when I see some SUV going 90mph, swerving through traffic and then flips....killing one and maiming another seriously. Our drivers ed system in the U.S. is a disgrace. No lessons on real car control and what cars and trucks can and cannot do.
-C.
10-03-2000, 01:46 PM
#17
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Too bad they think that
I was raised in an Audi/VW household as my Dad worked for them. I learned to drive on the very first quattros.
I've seen most older Audis with well over 300k and some with even 500k that are still going strong. Most of the people who take care of them have beautiful, rust free cars, even in winter climates. Audi built tough cars. I can't say as much for the average 300-500k mile American car.
I've never owned an American car because I've never seen one that was nearly as good in quality or longevity.
-C.
I've seen most older Audis with well over 300k and some with even 500k that are still going strong. Most of the people who take care of them have beautiful, rust free cars, even in winter climates. Audi built tough cars. I can't say as much for the average 300-500k mile American car.
I've never owned an American car because I've never seen one that was nearly as good in quality or longevity.
-C.
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