Just back from corner balance and alignment. Specs inside.
09-24-2004, 08:24 AM
#1
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Just back from corner balance and alignment. Specs inside.
<b>What brought me to where I am:</b>
I replaced my H&R Streets with STaSIS Motorsports (Koni-based), and replaced my Istook adjustable control arms with the stock arms. I wanted better on-track performance from the c/os, and I didn't want to mess around with the control arms anymore. I was willing to sacrifice some daily ride quality for the increased performance. Otherwise, the H&R Streets were a wonderful c/o setup, and I will continue to recommend them to people looking for street suspension and even occassional track time. I just got to the point where I was tracking so much that it was worth it to me personally. Re the control arms, I was going to shoot for more negative camber anyway, so there was no longer a need for the adjustability.
After install, I adjusted ride height to STaSIS recommendations with me in the car (with the help of a buddy). Car rode like poop because the high number of changes made for an alignment that was all out of whack. I didn't get it aligned in time for a track event, but ran anyway with no troubles. It was hard to evaluate the new suspension that way, but roll & dive were reduced. I didn't have any turn-in advantages, though.
<b>What I had done:</b>
Tried to go to Sears for an alignment, got the Heismann. Previous thread on that subject. Wasn't about to go to my local dealer because they're a bunch of idiots who I do not trust with my car. Previous thread on that subject as well. Looked around, asked for recommendations for a corner balance/alignment shop. Found one that the local Porsche guys use that is owned by a racer who I've seen at the track a few times.
Dropped off yesterday for corner balance. Gave them my weight so that they could add ballast. Removed everything from the car that wouldn't be there at the track (spare tire, etc.). 1/2 tank of gas. Here are the before & after scale readings:
<u>before</u> <u>after</u>
1050 LF 1086
1115 RF 1084
760 LR 717
660 RR 712
3596 total weight (not sure whether this is with or without a driver).
Alignment readings are (didn't get the before data):
LF camber -1.3 caster 5.1 toe 0.10
RF camber -1.4 caster 5.0 toe 0.10
LR camber -0.9 toe 0.10
RR camber -0.9 toe 0.15
total toe 0.20
thrust angle 0.0
Looks like just what I told him to target - negative 1.5 up front, and 0.5 less in the rear, with a little toe in. As a bonus, he showed me how to adjust toe at the track so that I could go toe out there and put it back to drive home. Very easy - 22mm and 18mm wrench, and it's done. He said to just count the number of turns and reverse it when I'm done. Pretty cool of him, actually.
2.0 hours of labor for the corner balance. 2.5 for the alignment. $75/hour labor charge.
<b>Net effect:</b>
Too early to tell on the track (wait about a month), but it's much improved on the street. No more toe out, steering wheel is straight, and it feels normal again. For a few weeks, I was going mad trying to keep it on the road because it was such a chore to drive. Finally back to where I'm comfortable again. Turning feels very crisp now, but I only got to hit one unfamiliar off ramp, so you know how that goes. True test will come at the track.
Anyway, just wanted to share. Comments welcome. Corner balancing is cool, mmkay?
I replaced my H&R Streets with STaSIS Motorsports (Koni-based), and replaced my Istook adjustable control arms with the stock arms. I wanted better on-track performance from the c/os, and I didn't want to mess around with the control arms anymore. I was willing to sacrifice some daily ride quality for the increased performance. Otherwise, the H&R Streets were a wonderful c/o setup, and I will continue to recommend them to people looking for street suspension and even occassional track time. I just got to the point where I was tracking so much that it was worth it to me personally. Re the control arms, I was going to shoot for more negative camber anyway, so there was no longer a need for the adjustability.
After install, I adjusted ride height to STaSIS recommendations with me in the car (with the help of a buddy). Car rode like poop because the high number of changes made for an alignment that was all out of whack. I didn't get it aligned in time for a track event, but ran anyway with no troubles. It was hard to evaluate the new suspension that way, but roll & dive were reduced. I didn't have any turn-in advantages, though.
<b>What I had done:</b>
Tried to go to Sears for an alignment, got the Heismann. Previous thread on that subject. Wasn't about to go to my local dealer because they're a bunch of idiots who I do not trust with my car. Previous thread on that subject as well. Looked around, asked for recommendations for a corner balance/alignment shop. Found one that the local Porsche guys use that is owned by a racer who I've seen at the track a few times.
Dropped off yesterday for corner balance. Gave them my weight so that they could add ballast. Removed everything from the car that wouldn't be there at the track (spare tire, etc.). 1/2 tank of gas. Here are the before & after scale readings:
<u>before</u> <u>after</u>
1050 LF 1086
1115 RF 1084
760 LR 717
660 RR 712
3596 total weight (not sure whether this is with or without a driver).
Alignment readings are (didn't get the before data):
LF camber -1.3 caster 5.1 toe 0.10
RF camber -1.4 caster 5.0 toe 0.10
LR camber -0.9 toe 0.10
RR camber -0.9 toe 0.15
total toe 0.20
thrust angle 0.0
Looks like just what I told him to target - negative 1.5 up front, and 0.5 less in the rear, with a little toe in. As a bonus, he showed me how to adjust toe at the track so that I could go toe out there and put it back to drive home. Very easy - 22mm and 18mm wrench, and it's done. He said to just count the number of turns and reverse it when I'm done. Pretty cool of him, actually.
2.0 hours of labor for the corner balance. 2.5 for the alignment. $75/hour labor charge.
<b>Net effect:</b>
Too early to tell on the track (wait about a month), but it's much improved on the street. No more toe out, steering wheel is straight, and it feels normal again. For a few weeks, I was going mad trying to keep it on the road because it was such a chore to drive. Finally back to where I'm comfortable again. Turning feels very crisp now, but I only got to hit one unfamiliar off ramp, so you know how that goes. True test will come at the track.
Anyway, just wanted to share. Comments welcome. Corner balancing is cool, mmkay?
09-24-2004, 08:53 AM
#5
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Very nice! Do you think the majority of the affect is from the
corner balance or mostly just due to getting the alignment together?
Also, if they CBed with driver weight then that weight is with driver. Just added up the corner weights.
Also, do you have any plans to try to fine tune the dampening on the car? Any guidelines people follow to try to get this done?
Also, if they CBed with driver weight then that weight is with driver. Just added up the corner weights.
Also, do you have any plans to try to fine tune the dampening on the car? Any guidelines people follow to try to get this done?
09-24-2004, 08:54 AM
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Right. Theoretically it can be done, but our cars are so front heavy that it's not worth trying
without major weight relocation. So, balancing side-to-side and total diagonal is really all you can hope for. However, you can see the difference from my before numbers - we made a significant improvement.
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09-24-2004, 08:56 AM
#8
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Yeah, I was thinking about taking pictures at the track.
Until I actually do it myself, just pics or a description might not be accurate. But it's basically unlock lock nut, adjust adjustment nut, lock lock nut. Count turns from where you started on the alignment nut, and go back when you're all done.
09-24-2004, 08:58 AM
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I think most of the street gains are from the alignment.
On that offramp, it did seem to benefit from the increased camber. I'm sure that the corner balance is helping somewhat, but I probably won't notice until I start throwing it into some turns on the track.
09-24-2004, 08:58 AM
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I was quoted 2-2.5 hours for an alignment @$75/hr and everyone here said I was getting ripped off.
I never went ahead with it. Maybe I should do it. At least I'm not the only one to be quoted such a high amount.