K04 Turbo upgrade, what all is needed?
#11
Upgrading to a BBK only makes sense if you plan to track the car or you want the look. It isn't going to provide any benefit in DD situations.
How exactly does engine HP relate to the suspension choice? Spring rate is one of the key attributes of a suspension, what spring rate is recommended for K04 power level? If there's a recommended upgrade, what is it? For instance, I'd advise getting a better clutch, at the TQ levels a K04 car makes there are clutches rated to handle that much TQ, so you find a clutch that can take the force. What grade of suspension component should one get with a K04'd motor?
Most people recommend these upgrades because they don't really understand how the components interact. Not that there is any harm in putting upgraded components on the car, but the logic of adding more power requiring these upgrades doesn't make sense.
How exactly does engine HP relate to the suspension choice? Spring rate is one of the key attributes of a suspension, what spring rate is recommended for K04 power level? If there's a recommended upgrade, what is it? For instance, I'd advise getting a better clutch, at the TQ levels a K04 car makes there are clutches rated to handle that much TQ, so you find a clutch that can take the force. What grade of suspension component should one get with a K04'd motor?
Most people recommend these upgrades because they don't really understand how the components interact. Not that there is any harm in putting upgraded components on the car, but the logic of adding more power requiring these upgrades doesn't make sense.
Generally if you're upgrading the engine to have more power, you want it to go faster. If you're going faster, you should make the appropriate upgrades to stop faster as well. Of course, from the same speed it's not much of a difference, but it's just generally a good idea. At the very least you should consider upgrading your pads if they're stock.
Tires affect handling and grip. It's generally recommended to upgrade tires with power output. Sure the stock size is capable, but you'd be better off improving your traction. If you only want to go straight, traction helps. If you want to turn, traction helps. Even if it's able to handle the power, it's a lot closer to the limit of the tire's performance, which is not optimal.
That's why these things were listed as recommended. Yes, a clutch upgrade would be considered more required, but doesn't have as much to do with safety as much as the delivery of power.
#12
The S4 isn't a drag race car, it's a passenger sedan. What's good for a true drag race car doesn't necessarily equate to something that is good for the S4. Most component changes involve tradeoffs. Increasing HP doesn't necesssarily mean the suspension must be changed. Back to my question, what level of suspension upgrade is needed with K04 power? My answer, is that it depends on what you want from the car, and it will involve tradeoffs. Your answer is?
There's a distinct difference between going faster and accelerating faster. The stock S4 was electronically limited to 143 mph, more than fast enough for the street. I expect a lot of people upgrade beyond stock not so that they can do 160, but so that they can accelerate faster. In that case upgraded brakes are not necessary. Like I said, track use, where the car will experience repeated heavy braking, where fade would become an issue, is where you might think about upgrading the brakes.
"Even if it's able to handle the power, it's a lot closer to the limit of the tire's performance, which is not optimal." What size tire upgrade is needed? What's the increase in lateral g's that the car can handle when upgrading from stock size tires? You say that at K04 power level's the vehicle is closer to the limit of the tire's performance. Could you quantify the limit and how close the car is to it?
There's a distinct difference between going faster and accelerating faster. The stock S4 was electronically limited to 143 mph, more than fast enough for the street. I expect a lot of people upgrade beyond stock not so that they can do 160, but so that they can accelerate faster. In that case upgraded brakes are not necessary. Like I said, track use, where the car will experience repeated heavy braking, where fade would become an issue, is where you might think about upgrading the brakes.
"Even if it's able to handle the power, it's a lot closer to the limit of the tire's performance, which is not optimal." What size tire upgrade is needed? What's the increase in lateral g's that the car can handle when upgrading from stock size tires? You say that at K04 power level's the vehicle is closer to the limit of the tire's performance. Could you quantify the limit and how close the car is to it?
#13
RS4 motor mounts are perfectly fine on a Stg3 car. Too soft? Are you kidding, again, why do you want engine mounts that are just going to transfer engine vibrations into the frame so you can enjoy them in the cabin?
Getting larger wheels/tires does not make sense, how exactly are they improving the safety and handling? Stock size wheels and tires are just fine.
Getting the brakes checked out would be smart, but that doesn't have anything to do with a K04 setup, just a good thing to do with any car.
I don't think any of those suggestions make sense when it comes to essential upgrades with a K04 setup. A better clutch is about the only essential, aside from the components necessary to actually get a K04 setup running.
Getting larger wheels/tires does not make sense, how exactly are they improving the safety and handling? Stock size wheels and tires are just fine.
Getting the brakes checked out would be smart, but that doesn't have anything to do with a K04 setup, just a good thing to do with any car.
I don't think any of those suggestions make sense when it comes to essential upgrades with a K04 setup. A better clutch is about the only essential, aside from the components necessary to actually get a K04 setup running.
At this point I just regard you as a person who's personal agenda is just to have a last word regardless of what others say. Additionally you seem to have some sort of comprehension problem so please work on that.
Everyone who has stage 3 (+) car will tell exactly the same thing I did. Broken engine mounts (even RS4), smoked clutches, crashed cars due to inadequate handling for torque/speed can be amended with proper upgrades and prevention.
I also don't understand your fear of aftermarket mounts. I personally have soft solid stern engine mounts and the car doesn't get any noticeable vibrations in the cabin so that's why I would highly recommend these over oem junk.
#14
Flyboy: I don't know if you are trying to be a Troll or if you just have a problem with communication. Either way, there's no need to jump into a thread and start swinging wildly at other posters. This is not the only thread where you have done this.
I think your input is appreciated as is and your opinions are regarded as on par with anyone elses. There is no need to undermine the opinions of others...
Last edited by donromani; 06-22-2010 at 07:47 AM.
#15
The S4 isn't a drag race car, it's a passenger sedan. What's good for a true drag race car doesn't necessarily equate to something that is good for the S4. Most component changes involve tradeoffs. Increasing HP doesn't necesssarily mean the suspension must be changed. Back to my question, what level of suspension upgrade is needed with K04 power? My answer, is that it depends on what you want from the car, and it will involve tradeoffs. Your answer is?
There's a distinct difference between going faster and accelerating faster. The stock S4 was electronically limited to 143 mph, more than fast enough for the street. I expect a lot of people upgrade beyond stock not so that they can do 160, but so that they can accelerate faster. In that case upgraded brakes are not necessary. Like I said, track use, where the car will experience repeated heavy braking, where fade would become an issue, is where you might think about upgrading the brakes.
"Even if it's able to handle the power, it's a lot closer to the limit of the tire's performance, which is not optimal." What size tire upgrade is needed? What's the increase in lateral g's that the car can handle when upgrading from stock size tires? You say that at K04 power level's the vehicle is closer to the limit of the tire's performance. Could you quantify the limit and how close the car is to it?
Let's assume he wants the car to have good handling as well. Guess what turning requires, on top of acceleration. Traction! While you should not be applying power through the turn, you'd be able to safely start applying power earlier while coming out of a turn with better tires. This also applies to even subtle changes in direction.
Fact of the matter is, with greater power you'll eventually require better tires. Going from 225 to 245 or 255 with minimal weight increase is going to be a significantly better set up (assuming relatively equal tire models) than the stock set up. Unless you're trying to be a ricer and do burnouts, you're losing the ability to accelerate or turn properly if you lose traction. Drifting is not a faster form of racing.
#16
You make some good points. My personal experience is that I've not been able to break traction with my stock size tires even when on race gas. I'm not doing 5000 rpm clutch drop launches, so likely how one decides to drive the car comes into play. For a street setup Stg3 I've never found the stock size tires to be lacking, but you point out clear benefits to going with a larger tire, even if they're not realized.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
SleeperS4
S4 / RS4 (B5 Platform) Discussion
5
01-02-2002 06:41 PM
Cyan S4
S4 / RS4 (B5 Platform) Discussion
8
10-11-2001 10:03 AM
TTEBERTT
TT (Mk1) Discussion
16
10-01-2001 01:06 PM
KAOS, AZ (Papa Smurf)
S4 / RS4 (B5 Platform) Discussion
10
03-26-2001 01:20 PM