VonK :: Retired

This refers to the post below. Read it first, then come back here.

In that post I had forgotten to mention the micro photographs that appear in some of the adds for these brakes. If I remember correctly, they allege to show rotor surface structure with and without cryogenic treatment. After my friend challenged the author of these pictures, he admitted that both came from the same negative but with different magnification. So much for scientific proof.<ul><li><a href="https://forums.audiworld.com/s4/msgs/280899.phtml">https://forums.audiworld.com/s4/msgs/280899.phtml</a</li></ul>

Innovator

I have been considering them. But the OE rotors seem fine for the street.

dosturbos

the process is as follows:

"...the metal is cooled slowly to deep cryogenic temperatures (-300°F), and slowly returned to room temperature, then heat-tempered as the final step."

and this results in:

"...improvements to the metal are significant. Deep cryogenic processing creates dramatic increases in abrasive wear resistance and durability. The increases in tensile strength, toughness and stability couple with the release of internal residual stresses."
and

"Deep cryogenic processing permanently refines the grain structure of metals at the atomic level. Carbon particles precipitate as carbides into a lattice structure and fill in the microscopic voids. This creates metallurgically improved and stabilized rotors that have a denser, smoother surface. As a result, you reduce heat and wear on brake rotors and pads"

Now, I am no Metallurgist, nor do I have access to a scanning electron microscope, so I don't know that I will ever be able to say conclusively whether or not there is a difference, but since I have already invested in these rotors, and they seem to be delivering on the promise of longer durability, I have no choice but to believe at least partly some of the claims.

The OEM rotors are "very" soft, and many people can attest to thier tendency to warp. All I can do is let you know how things look in 8000 miles and one track event, and then I will have some real world data.

btw, Von, have you ever had any parts treated? I ask not to bash or anything, just wondering of you or someone that you know well has had actual bad experiences with cryo stuff. What got you looking into this anyway?

Good lively discussion btw.

truth

Howard Rouch @ Rouch Performance in Lake Bluff, IL can do this work for you (847) 735-1188

VonK :: Retired

This guy is good. However, you quote his own propaganda that is, sorry to say, nothing but techno babble and patent nonsense for anyone who has any depth of knowledge in physics or metallurgy. He even personally admitted that his micro photos were untrue.

I'm not saying that this process can have a bad effect on rotors. It just has no effect. I don't even know whether the man actually chills his rotors, or just claims he does. Also, I'm not saying that your new rotors are no good, I'm just implying that they're no better than they would have been without cryogenic processing.

I don't mean to rain on anybody's parade. But I feel that the truth should be told so more people don't fall pray to this. My best friend (PhD in physics) looked into this as a technical expert in connection with an accident investigation. I don't want to brag, but I have an MS in aeronautical engineering, and to me his findings are conclusive. :-)

dosturbos

He claims that my rotors will last 3 times as long and show less signs of abuse and that should certianly be measurable given the amount of wear on my stock rotors with 8000 miles. When my car rolls 16k, I will compare them and see how they look. They are Audi OEM rotors so its a pretty valid test between the two. I already invested the money in them, so its put up or shut up time for the cryo thing. Its either going to do what they say, or they won't get my return bidness.

Do you know if anyone has done independent evals on this kind of thing? It sure seems like it would be interesting to see how that shook out.

VonK :: Retired

I've heard of other applications of cryogenic processing of materials, but know nothing about them.

dosturbos

Alright, I guess I am the guinea pig, we'll see how this thing goes.

Spinboyee

I bought a pair for my E36 M3 and they are supposed to be virtually warp free. I broke them in properly and they still got warped within a month's span. Yeah I drive 100+ on C-470 frequently, but they did not do what they are advertised to do.

GregA

BIRA offers Coleman "replirotors," multi-piece aluminum-hat rotors that mimic the stock S4 rotor. It resolves the biggest issue with outr brakes.

They're not cheap (about $900 per pair), but they work well.<ul><li><a href="http://www.bira.org">http://www.bira.org</a</li></ul>