Shopping for Stage 3 S4, Advice welcome
07-15-2008, 02:56 PM
#1
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Shopping for Stage 3 S4, Advice welcome
I've been trying to decide between a Stage3 S4 and a D2 S8 for a second/weekend car for a while now. Having found compelling candidates in both categories, I am hoping to glean a few bits of knowledge from you guys before making a big purchase.
Most of the Stage 3 S4's I have seen for sale all seem to have the Vast Stage 3 Kit. None of which have the "RS4 intercoolers" This concerned me a bit. They also seem to have the 5 Bar MAP w/ a manual boost controller.
I was advised you simply "dial in your own boost according to gas/knock ect."
This is how I tuned my old cars with a logger/laptop ect/afc back in the days. All of my audi(s) have been chip it and forget it for the most part.
Thoughts?
Vast Kit ?
After market/RS4 I/C a Must for stage3 ?
Obviously I am aware of the usual maintenance issues/ect. The S4 will be a HELL of a lot more fun than the S8, but not nearly as comfortable.
Most of the Stage 3 S4's I have seen for sale all seem to have the Vast Stage 3 Kit. None of which have the "RS4 intercoolers" This concerned me a bit. They also seem to have the 5 Bar MAP w/ a manual boost controller.
I was advised you simply "dial in your own boost according to gas/knock ect."
This is how I tuned my old cars with a logger/laptop ect/afc back in the days. All of my audi(s) have been chip it and forget it for the most part.
Thoughts?
Vast Kit ?
After market/RS4 I/C a Must for stage3 ?
Obviously I am aware of the usual maintenance issues/ect. The S4 will be a HELL of a lot more fun than the S8, but not nearly as comfortable.
07-15-2008, 03:18 PM
#2
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IMO, stage 3 with MBC is skip if you just want off the shelf reliability.
Mind you, I've had homebrew (with MBC), GIAC, Autospeed, and am now with EPL tuning in my S4. Vast has some very happy customers too! I'm sure others will chime in.
07-15-2008, 03:24 PM
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Current VAST stage 3 kits do *not* use manual boost controllers. They've never used 5 bar FPRs...
and our cars have a stock 2.5 bar MAP sensor that nobody changes.
Upgraded intercoolers are quite important for stage 3 IMO.
Upgraded intercoolers are quite important for stage 3 IMO.
07-15-2008, 03:27 PM
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Those are two very different choices.
I think it's really up to whether you want to cruise with speed or haul major ***?
I vote haul ***, but you are asking a biased group.
I vote haul ***, but you are asking a biased group.
07-15-2008, 03:30 PM
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You can have both. Those options are not mutually exclusive. My car is a great daily driver...
that cruises very well and drives just about like a stock car, yet also "hauls major ***" by most people's standards.
<img src="http://nyet.org/fats/uploads/Typical-7-10-2008_10-42-41_PM_DMPv2pt17_73f.png">
<img src="http://nyet.org/fats/uploads/Typical-6-10-2008_12-54-06_PM_DMPv2pt16_75F.png">
<img src="http://nyet.org/fats/uploads/Typical-7-10-2008_10-42-41_PM_DMPv2pt17_73f.png">
<img src="http://nyet.org/fats/uploads/Typical-6-10-2008_12-54-06_PM_DMPv2pt16_75F.png">
07-15-2008, 04:08 PM
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Re: IMO, stage 3 with MBC is skip if you just want off the shelf reliability.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking for you to decide for me, 
.
I'm just trying to figure out the nuts and bolts of buying a stage3 S4. I have done TONS of reading, and still there are always little bits that I miss/ don't understand.
Do most of the major vendors have stage 3 programming IE:
APR
GIAC
Do they have chipped/race gas "programs" like on the stage 1/2 kits that I am more familiar with.
Does VAST do their own programming ?
.I'm just trying to figure out the nuts and bolts of buying a stage3 S4. I have done TONS of reading, and still there are always little bits that I miss/ don't understand.
Do most of the major vendors have stage 3 programming IE:
APR
GIAC
Do they have chipped/race gas "programs" like on the stage 1/2 kits that I am more familiar with.
Does VAST do their own programming ?
07-15-2008, 04:16 PM
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Sample from one ad:
<center><img src="http://images.autotrader.com/images/2008/6/2/245/726/7366718956.245726365.IM1.02.565x421_A.562x421.jpg" ></center><p>
Vast Performance Stage 3 Kit -K04 Turbos (2 extra CHRA's included) -Upgraded injectors -5 bar FPR -Open element intake with 85mm MAF housing -Manual boost controller -Vast Performance software - Vast TCD AWE Downpipes w/ testpipes AWE Twin 2 Exhaust (Converted into Twin 1) APR BiPipe APR Boost Gauge APR Snub Mount 710n Diverter valves Vast short shifter VAG-COM Cable.
It says vast software, but then the MBC to "adjust boost as you want". I'm guessing this is really a "home brew" at best. Oh well.
Vast Performance Stage 3 Kit -K04 Turbos (2 extra CHRA's included) -Upgraded injectors -5 bar FPR -Open element intake with 85mm MAF housing -Manual boost controller -Vast Performance software - Vast TCD AWE Downpipes w/ testpipes AWE Twin 2 Exhaust (Converted into Twin 1) APR BiPipe APR Boost Gauge APR Snub Mount 710n Diverter valves Vast short shifter VAG-COM Cable.
It says vast software, but then the MBC to "adjust boost as you want". I'm guessing this is really a "home brew" at best. Oh well.
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07-15-2008, 04:23 PM
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APR, GIAC, and VAST all do their own stage 3 tuning. APR and GIAC both have program switching...
APR uses cruise control stalk to switch.
GIAC uses a handheld swithcer or a computer program.
VAST can only put one program on a single chip, but you can swap chips within a single ECU to swap programs if you'd like.
ASP has some switching software as well.
EPL is in the same boat as VAST, I believe.
GIAC uses a handheld swithcer or a computer program.
VAST can only put one program on a single chip, but you can swap chips within a single ECU to swap programs if you'd like.
ASP has some switching software as well.
EPL is in the same boat as VAST, I believe.
07-15-2008, 04:30 PM
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VAST used to sell similar HomeBrew type kits before they did their own software...
Now, they sell full fueling kits that include their own software and no MBC/TCDs.
One option is 42# injectors with RS4 (~83mm) MAF housing modified to use Hitachi MAF.
Another option is 60# injectors, 3 bar FPR, and RS4 (~83mm) MAF housing modified to use Hitachi MAF.
One option is 42# injectors with RS4 (~83mm) MAF housing modified to use Hitachi MAF.
Another option is 60# injectors, 3 bar FPR, and RS4 (~83mm) MAF housing modified to use Hitachi MAF.