ryans4

...and see what's going on. I've never worn half of the inside of the tire before. But you are running a lot of rear spring rate for your car, and you have decent torque with the StageIII kit on.

You could be spooling up an inside wheel when you get hard on the throttle. That's my only guess.

FixedWing

There is a lot of talk on this forum about running too much negative camber. I guess this is because for most people negative camber at the front isn't adjustable and they are forced to live with it if they have a lowered car. But my feeling is that for some few people, all of that negative camber is needed else the tyres will wear on the outsides.

How is the understeer/oversteer balance with that much rear camber?

Stephen

FixedWing

<center><img src="http://www.vacmotorsports.com/db/images/lon-50640.jpg"></center><p>

ryans4

...becuase my car is so low. rear ride height is about 24.4" fender to ground.

The car handles great, very neutral. it has an eibach spring/shock kit and stock sway bars on. The aggressive rear camber surely helps, but the car hardly oversteers. I would be surprised to find *any* s4 with same size tires front and rear and no Toe OUT to not be neutral at best leaning towards understeer.

Like I said, I'll snap some extended camber wear pics when I get the car up for service next (which is soon, the list of items has grown to be quite long now).

ryans4

...money no object ($350) Longacre 50690:
<img src="http://www.longacreracing.com/images/products/pyros/50690.jpg">

money still not that big an object ($300) Longacre 50682:
<img src="http://www.longacreracing.com/images/products/pyros/50682.jpg">

money an object ($140) Longacre 50640:
<img src="http://www.longacreracing.com/images/products/pyros/50640.jpg">

good enough for gov't work, but I wouldn't race on it would be any IR temp gun.

FixedWing

My thought was that the toe setting was more about transition (for example, going from straight ahead to cornering, i.e. turn-in) but shouldn't have that much effect on the steady state handling. So it would make steady state cornering more and less stable but it wouldn't change it from steady state understeer to steady state oversteer. So toe-out would make the car transition into the corner faster and less stable in the corner but wouldn't change the general handling to that of oversteer. Am I wrong?

I'm surprised to hear that this is the minimum you can get at your ride height. I had no idea until now that we had the same ride height vs. camber problem at the back as at the front.

As an asside, I've been playing a lot with the handling on my car in the winter conditions here. Lift throttle, I can get the front to tuck in and transition to a slight oversteer attitude. But when I try to catch it on the throttle and keep the oversteer I'm finding that the car will usually recover itself. I think part of it is that I'm not being aggressive enough. It is *very* hard to get myself to enter the corner late and fast enough that I can use the throttle/brake to rotate the car like this without slowing too much. But I also feel like the anti-roll bars are still not quite right. I've actually thought of disconnecting the front bar completely just to see what it will do. But first I want to get the LSD in and see how that works. I have a feeling that that will help a lot when it comes to using the throttle to keep the oversteer attitude since the throttle will be operating on two rear wheels instead of just one.

But I agree with you on how stable these cars are. I think they are basically an incredibly safe car to drive. A couple winters ago I was playing in a parking lot (until the cop intervened and ruined the fun). I had a very big oval mapped out and was using brakes and then throttle to get massive oversteer through the corner. Even with the tail hanging way out I found that the car just wouldn't spin. It would always recover itself.

Stephen

FixedWing

Thanx.. I will keep my eye open for a Longacre 50640 cheap. :-)

ryans4

I'd think a lot of rear Toe Out would make teh car oversteer...

Tomasz@Startup

When you are quickly running around and taking tire temps, you need somethign that will remember them. The single display one is NOT worth it.

ryans4

...or someone standing next to you that can write down 3 3-digit numbers very quickly without screwing up where they correlate to on teh tire and direction of the car.