JPQuattro

Yes you can do it both ways which I have done. I can can tell you it is much harder to do this with out the cam lock bar as the bar holds the cams in place from moving. I was off timing one tooth when I did the white out mark method on my NA 2.8 so had to do it again eventually getting it right with out the bar. I will only use the bar method now though.

Loosening up the cam sprockets allows the cam gears to slide to the end of the cam nose which is a connical seat, thus allowing for more belt slack & rotation of the cam gear making it easier to lock the timing dead on.

My friend who works at the local Audi dealer uses the lock bar method on all V6s. I have seen it in use at the shop, he is no rookie.

complacentsee

Primarily because you can't easily do the cam seals without it.
The tool rental is cheep.
Insures you have the correct timing, regardless of previous belt stretch. (if your clueless and only go by the marks you could be off by a tooth.)
For a first time, it adds confidence to the job.

bingS4

That may be but it doesn't mean I'm wrong. Loosening the sprockets and tightening them with the proper tension on the belt guarantees that the timing is where it should be. It makes counting teeth on the belt irrelevant. Call me conservative, but I assume the engineers who designed things to be done in a certain way are smarter than I am and I'll do it as they intended. There are plenty of stories of people counting teeth and not getting the timing just right, so I'd just as soon do it right the first time.

nimmote

How long has it been taking people to do a timing belt service?

My first one on my B5 S4 took probably a total of about 15 hours between refrencing internet and running to get tools. I just did my B5 Passat (beater car) last night with the same 2.8 audi engine and pulled it into the garage and drove it out 6 hours later doing a full service (timing belt, accessory belt, water pump, thermostat, idle roller, tensioner roller, and fluids) and cleaning stuff along the way. I did not have the cam lock tool and did not do the cam seals since they were clean with no oil residue. I think i spent 2 hours removing the bumper and radiator, then another hour trying to get the mechanical fan off without the correct tool, 2.5 hours to do all the real work and put it back together and go for a test drive and probably 30 minutes throughout the procedure drinking beer and cussing at the car and the germans for making stuff impossible!

Faulk

Thanks again guys for the advice. Currently, I'm about 3 hours into it and I'm at the point where I have taken off the mechanical fan. I couldn't keep working on it last weekend because the Northeast snowstorm caused a delay in my parts. But I'm planning on finishing Friday night, then on Sat morning installing boost guage and short throw. I expect the entire timing belt process is approx 8 hours. It obv depends a lot on what tools you have and your help - but that seems about right. Others have basically said "plan for an entire day". And as you say - it depends on how many beers you drink and how many times you have to **** out back of the garage.

Faulk

Timing belt service done. A few notes, pointers, observations to help others with this process.

So. 8 hours to do the timing belt service? PSSHHAAA! More like 15+

We got completely hung up on the power steering pulley. I had no idea before going into this the trouble some people had getting that GDPOS off. Thankfully, I was at the right person's house. We put a MONSTER 3-way puller on the pulley (careful not to warp the pulley) and sprayed about a half gallon of PB on both sides. Let it sit for a few hours. Nothing. Then, busted out the torch and heated up the pulley and POP - came right off. A few notes on this heating technique. It's important to heat about 2 to 3 inches outside of the center because if you heat the inside hex nut of the pulley, the heat will be absorbed into the power steering pump. This not only cancels the effect of trying to heat the aluminum pulley (to expand it) but may damage the bearings inside of the pump. In addition, try to avoid allowing the flame to shoot through the screw holes in the pulley because you might damage things behind it. It took about 1 to 2 minutes of heat (slowly moving around the pulley) before it popped. I think it was a combination of the tension from the puller, and the heat. In other words, I'm not sure if just heat would work. If you don't have a puller, i would suggest heat and a rubber mallet to the backside of the pulley. Again, careful not to bend the pulley.

Another note: I rented the tool set from Blaufergnugen (sp?) and never used any of it - granted my cam seals were not leaking so I didn't replace them. But one comment - that pin that locks the crank is a real bish to get it. There is little clearance to use a rachet with a wobbly or universal to drive the pin into the hole. It looked as though I would have needed to remove the front sway bar or some turbo piping. F that. Guys, trust yourselves - use the markings on the timing belt - with the help of a friend and you'll be fine. We were a half tooth off after we put the belt on - and after 2 complete revolutions we lined up perfectly. i was hesitant to use this technique but its a million times easier. But, if you are doing the seals - different story. I would suggest the tools.

Finally - be VERY careful installing all the plastic covers after the job. Its very easy to rush since you see the light at the end of the tunnel, but be patient and careful. Hopefully you don't have 10 beers in you by this point. I chipped the bottom of one of the covers and had to bond it overnight which hung up the process.

All in - an EXTREMELY rewarding process. I very much enjoyed it and think the combination of the timing belt DVD and the right people helping (good problem solvers) you can get this done yourselves.

Thanks again for the pointers and advice along the way

Faulk

oh and one other funny note. After all that hard technical mechanical work, I put my front tires on wrong - the rotational signal is pointing backwards!