Tracksports are "bouncy". Would this be related to the dampeners, the springs, both, or neither?
10-22-2005, 07:40 PM
#13
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just to clarify my situation...
when i bought my car, it came with the 800/1000 springs. after talking to Stasis and getting new springs, and driving with Paul Lambert (the owner of Stasis) in my car... he did not hold anything back. he explained the design of their suspension and why my 800/1000 springs would do better on the Ohlins. my old setup would have been fine for the track, but not for everyday driving. i asked lots of questions and he answered them all.
with my new setup, i plan on dialling up the damping when at the track and then dialing back when i am street driving. just like how folks swap out track wheels and/or brakes... i plan on doing the same with the suspension. overall, i am happy with my TrackSport setup... and if i get into tracking more with my car, i am sure Ohlins will be in my future as well.
with my new setup, i plan on dialling up the damping when at the track and then dialing back when i am street driving. just like how folks swap out track wheels and/or brakes... i plan on doing the same with the suspension. overall, i am happy with my TrackSport setup... and if i get into tracking more with my car, i am sure Ohlins will be in my future as well.
10-22-2005, 08:30 PM
#14
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Good question.
Stephen, when you got the TrtackSports they were the best thing in town. That was 1 year ago. New MotorSports were not available (pictures only). I thought mine (600/700 were all right). Again, no other options.
It was around that time that Patrick talked me into a multi month adventure of getting Penskes to work with our cars.
It was just few months ago, that I sold my used TrackSports, I did that to finish work on the Penskes. At that time we had two or three prototypes running (none on my car), and Eric was the only one saying that they were better than TrackSports.
It has been few months since then, and I have been able to spend many days tweaking Penske valving settings. And yeah, with help of few others, we have taken that setup considerably ahead of 4 year old TrackSport design.
So, do I feel that TrackSports are aged, and been surprassed by few others - yes. But they are still the only sub $2,000 option for linear rate springs, and at one time they were the best thing around.
It was around that time that Patrick talked me into a multi month adventure of getting Penskes to work with our cars.
It was just few months ago, that I sold my used TrackSports, I did that to finish work on the Penskes. At that time we had two or three prototypes running (none on my car), and Eric was the only one saying that they were better than TrackSports.
It has been few months since then, and I have been able to spend many days tweaking Penske valving settings. And yeah, with help of few others, we have taken that setup considerably ahead of 4 year old TrackSport design.
So, do I feel that TrackSports are aged, and been surprassed by few others - yes. But they are still the only sub $2,000 option for linear rate springs, and at one time they were the best thing around.
10-22-2005, 08:31 PM
#15
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OK, but the point is Stasis is NOT putting this information out publicly.
It should be clearly stated on their site and they should educate their distributors, especially since you can NO LONGER buy direct from them. I'm sure Paul is a good honest ethical person, but they should be publicly up front about their product's performance and what works best with what. The customer is doing the R&D when they shouldn't have to.
10-22-2005, 08:51 PM
#16
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No, and I hate to defend STaSIS who I compete with now...
Suspension tuning is somewhat similiar to exhaust tuning. There are people who loved VM1, and some found it WAY too loud. It is somewhat of an art - what FEELS good. (And what delivers good track performance.)
Are you blaming Audi for not advertising that their OEM suspension was too soft?
With TrackSports and MotorSports STaSIS gave you the option to pick spring rates, they also gave limited advice that went along with it. Many people like the option to tune and tweak their setups. But with that comes a risk... of not liking what you brew.
We are not doing R&D for STaSIS, we are doing limited R&D to match our tastes. Many of us change wheels, some change exhausts or suspensions over time. It is a learning process. It does not mean that Milltek sucks because it is too quiet or that VM1 sucks because it is too loud. But some people have sold off these because they were not delivering the reults they expected.
TrackSports are not broken. They just have a charecteristic that some of us find unpleasant on the street - namely some bounciness with stiff springs. Though many find it acceptable, or not even notice it. Let me also add, that these settings probably deliver a good track performance - I believe that too much rebound will hurt grip.
But STaSIS (and I) have take the feedback and added more rebound to our new offerings - we have improved new products based on customer feedback. I do not see anything wrong with that.
Do you expect STaSIS to change the description on TrackSports to say - "some customers prefer Penskes"? It is like buying the M3 12 months ago, and then being angry with BMW that the M3 is slower than new M5.
So, to make my stance clear. TrackSports are good and and a good value. Penskes and in all fairness Ohlins are much better.
Are you blaming Audi for not advertising that their OEM suspension was too soft?
With TrackSports and MotorSports STaSIS gave you the option to pick spring rates, they also gave limited advice that went along with it. Many people like the option to tune and tweak their setups. But with that comes a risk... of not liking what you brew.
We are not doing R&D for STaSIS, we are doing limited R&D to match our tastes. Many of us change wheels, some change exhausts or suspensions over time. It is a learning process. It does not mean that Milltek sucks because it is too quiet or that VM1 sucks because it is too loud. But some people have sold off these because they were not delivering the reults they expected.
TrackSports are not broken. They just have a charecteristic that some of us find unpleasant on the street - namely some bounciness with stiff springs. Though many find it acceptable, or not even notice it. Let me also add, that these settings probably deliver a good track performance - I believe that too much rebound will hurt grip.
But STaSIS (and I) have take the feedback and added more rebound to our new offerings - we have improved new products based on customer feedback. I do not see anything wrong with that.
Do you expect STaSIS to change the description on TrackSports to say - "some customers prefer Penskes"? It is like buying the M3 12 months ago, and then being angry with BMW that the M3 is slower than new M5.
So, to make my stance clear. TrackSports are good and and a good value. Penskes and in all fairness Ohlins are much better.
10-22-2005, 09:15 PM
#17
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this is why i get tired of AW sometimes...
i've been a long time off and on member of this place and it is threads like this that turn me off. all i was trying to do was give some advice i had heard from Stasis to bnl107.
OC Avant - i am not sure what your agenda is? Stasis obviously would love to put every single customer into the top of their line MotorSport suspension, but not everyone can afford that. and as we all know, you get what you pay for. years ago, H&R coilovers were the rage and i put them on my 2001.5 S4 Avant. now it seems it is a toss up between the Ohlins and Penskes.
in any case, it is great to see companies constantly upping the ante on products and technology. so instead of bashing them for what they are not putting on their website, call them up and TALK to them. they can give you much better technical information over the phone than possibly confusing folks by posting it on their website.
maybe the TraskSport aren't treating you right and perhaps with your needs, you might be better off in the MotorSport or Penske. but if you feel like you made an uninformed purchasing decision (or one based on what you read here at AW!), then you have no one to blame except yourself.
OC Avant - i am not sure what your agenda is? Stasis obviously would love to put every single customer into the top of their line MotorSport suspension, but not everyone can afford that. and as we all know, you get what you pay for. years ago, H&R coilovers were the rage and i put them on my 2001.5 S4 Avant. now it seems it is a toss up between the Ohlins and Penskes.
in any case, it is great to see companies constantly upping the ante on products and technology. so instead of bashing them for what they are not putting on their website, call them up and TALK to them. they can give you much better technical information over the phone than possibly confusing folks by posting it on their website.
maybe the TraskSport aren't treating you right and perhaps with your needs, you might be better off in the MotorSport or Penske. but if you feel like you made an uninformed purchasing decision (or one based on what you read here at AW!), then you have no one to blame except yourself.
10-22-2005, 09:49 PM
#18
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Did you call STaSIS directly and ask them all of these questions?
They would be the experts on their products. I think many people do not fully understand suspensions (me included) and all that goes into them and which ones are right for what. Additionaly, most things require compromises in life and the things that don't are almost always very expensive but there is a reason for it.
And truthfully, If you want a set up that does it all you need to spend the money to get it (not trying to be mean here, just how I feel). I know the Motorsport and Penske set ups are expensive but until you drive on a set you really can't understand where the money goes. I drove for 3 hours today on my Motorsport with 850 front and 1200 rears... the car was amazingly compliant... infact my wife feels it is better the the RS6 stock set up and I agree. The suspension really can do it all.
Now if no one explained this to you, that what you are geting is a very good product but in truth it won't do it all things great then yes there is a problem. If it was billed as it will do it all pefectly and it won't then yes.... I would be upset as well.
And truthfully, If you want a set up that does it all you need to spend the money to get it (not trying to be mean here, just how I feel). I know the Motorsport and Penske set ups are expensive but until you drive on a set you really can't understand where the money goes. I drove for 3 hours today on my Motorsport with 850 front and 1200 rears... the car was amazingly compliant... infact my wife feels it is better the the RS6 stock set up and I agree. The suspension really can do it all.
Now if no one explained this to you, that what you are geting is a very good product but in truth it won't do it all things great then yes there is a problem. If it was billed as it will do it all pefectly and it won't then yes.... I would be upset as well.
10-22-2005, 10:01 PM
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The customer is doing the R&D.... are you seroius... do you own a 15k shock dyno? Have you been
racing the B5 chassis for 5 years and building parts for the cars? I am sorry.... If you call and ask questions you will get all the anwsers.... they will be totally up front with you.
Also, as with any product companies make, they will get customer feed back... it does not mean the company did not do any R&D.... Audi will design a car do the R&D, then put it to market.... undoublty not everyone will like everything... and so they will get feedback and decided what is relivant and what is not to the majority of their customers and use it their future cars and products.
STaSIS does educate their vendors... just a few months ago they had a two day education for the companies that sell their products... now if those people choose not forward that information to the client... well STaSIS can't control everyone and what they say... they can try and educate but if the person does not relay that info or does not do it correctly and STaSIS gave them the info then it is a flaw on the retailer that is selling the product. Or if that retailer does not know the info, they should have directed you STaSIS to get the anwsers. That is why I try and always talk with the manufacture directly... that way I get (in most cases) the correct anwsers.
I am sorry you feel the whole chain of people has pulled the wool over your eyes but I really think that is not the case.
Also, as with any product companies make, they will get customer feed back... it does not mean the company did not do any R&D.... Audi will design a car do the R&D, then put it to market.... undoublty not everyone will like everything... and so they will get feedback and decided what is relivant and what is not to the majority of their customers and use it their future cars and products.
STaSIS does educate their vendors... just a few months ago they had a two day education for the companies that sell their products... now if those people choose not forward that information to the client... well STaSIS can't control everyone and what they say... they can try and educate but if the person does not relay that info or does not do it correctly and STaSIS gave them the info then it is a flaw on the retailer that is selling the product. Or if that retailer does not know the info, they should have directed you STaSIS to get the anwsers. That is why I try and always talk with the manufacture directly... that way I get (in most cases) the correct anwsers.
I am sorry you feel the whole chain of people has pulled the wool over your eyes but I really think that is not the case.